can one like pain (part II)

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
1

This thread stems from this one here (I won’t repeat the ideas therein so at least read the OP).

Some people in that thread claimed to enjoy pain as pain - that is, it’s not just that the behavior of bodily mutilation brings pleasure but that it actually feels painful… and they like it.

This to me sounds like a blatant contradiction. It’s like saying that where one person sees red, another person sees blue, but not just that they see red as blue - they see red as red, just as you or I do, but at the same time blue. I just can’t imagine that.

So the question of this thread is directed to those who claim to like pain:

Would the following be a fair way to construe your experiences? There is a region in the brain called the anterior cingulate cortex which is thought to play a large roll in how we experience pain, particularly the way we emotionally react to pain. People who have damage to this region report that they feel pain but that it’s “not as bad”.

What this tell me is that there must be two aspects to pain - one is the quality and the other is the intensity (or that’s what I’m going to call them anyway). The quality is what allows us to distinguish between the different kinds of pain and other sensations that aren’t pain - like the difference between burns, scratches, pressure, etc. The intensity is the feeling of “oh-make-it-stop-I-can’t-take-it” - that is, the feeling that we just want it to go away. The anterior cingulate cortex must be responsible for the latter, but the former (the distinctions between the different qualities of pain) must be controlled by some other brain region.

I say one cannot like the feeling of “intense” pain, although the “quality” may be a different story.

The closest analogy I can think of is the experience of seeing color. We can distinguish between different qualities of colors - blue, red, yellow - but there’s an additional pleasantness that comes with it (we usually prefer the world in color as opposed to dull shades of grey). Conceivably, the pleasantness of seeing color can be knocked out without affecting our ability to distinguish between the many hues. Just the same, it might be possible to knock out (or block out) the unpleasantness of pain without affecting our ability to recognize it as pain and distinguish it from other forms of pain and sensations that aren’t pain.

Is this a fair construal?

2

You analogy may help in understand what the difference is, and what we are trying to say. Red is pain and blue is pleasant is not correct. Red is burning your skin and blue is friendship. Most people associate burning your skin with pain and friendship with pleasure. This is the difference. For some reason, the individual has not made this same association. Many times it comes from extensive abuse and pain and the lack of pleasure in life. They associate burning their skin with pleasure and friendship as pain. So you say red is pain and blue is pleasure. They say red is pleasure and blue is pain. Then when the question is asked can one like pain we answered yes because we are associating pain with red. These people like red and dislike blue. They view red as pleasure but we do not. In reality they seek pleasure but what they view as pleasure is what we view as pain and vise versa.

3

So are you saying it’s a matter of word association?

4

It is more than that. I ask two people what is pain. Both subjects A and B give the same response. Pain is burning skin and friendship is pleasure. Subject A seeks pleasure and subject B seeks pain. The reason we say this is because of what they emotional seek.

The problem is pain and pleasure as in terms of burning skin and friendship are taught. Even subject B has learned this terminology. But subject B has crossed lines emotionally. What his mind perceives as pleasure is the burning skin. He is seeking pleasure but has been taught burning skin is pain. That leaves him in the situation of seeking pain because he has been taught burning skin is pain, but he is seeking what his mind perceives as pleasure.

That is why we say subject B is seeking pain because he is seeking what we have determined through language as pain even though it is pleasure to the individual.

5

Pain cannot be liked or wanted, pain cannot be enjoyed, pain cannot please.

It can only do the opposites, by definition.

Association doesn’t change the official definition and meaning.

6

Faulty logic. Read above post for explanation. Stating a dogma doesn’t validate a position. If you care to validate your position answer these questions.

Define pain, what is pain?

Is burning your hand pain or pleasure?

If I enjoy burning my hand is that pleasure or pain I am enjoying?

7

pleasure, obviously if its enjoyable.

Again, i refer you to a dictionary.

8

they are trying to explore the nature of pain and how someone may come to enjoy physical pain, not the contents of a dictionary. you only demonstrate your failure to make the connection between the analogy and the topic as presented.

9

It is all about context.

Here, let’s run with the theme of color for a moment. Read about simultaneous contrast and you’ll start to get an idea of what it is all about.