What happens to people who die that never heard of Christianity or Jesus Christ in their lifetimes? Do they go to heaven or hell? The bible seems to say that they must go to hell, because they have not accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they have not asked for the forgiveness of their sins. But is this really fair? That God created these people to live lives that never hear the “divine message”, and because they do not allow Jesus into their hearts, have no chance of going to heaven?
And if they are judged based on their “works” in life, how good of a person they are, isnt this contradictory, since Jesus said that “by good works alone you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven” (paraphrase)? Christianity makes it pretty clear that what a person does, or who he is inside doesnt matter, all that matters is whether or not he genuinely asks Jesus for the forgiveness of his sins. Thus you cannot “earn” the right to heaven on your own, and can only get to heaven by worshipping Jesus.
And if they are judged by their works, because they never heard of Jesus, isnt this unfair to everyone else who heard the name of Jesus one time but never enough to “believe” in it? Now they go to hell even if they were good people, because someone told them about Jesus once, while the completely ignorant of Jesus get to go to heaven if they were good people?
This question is very simple to address. The outcome depends entirely on what is signified by the name “Jesus”.
If “Jesus” means that-that-which-is, then without knowing Him the greatest human attainment is impossible.
If “Jesus” is a reference to a book character, then it doesn’t matter if one’s ever heard of him.
Once again, are you trying to imply that the concept of hell is not an integral part of modern Christian belief?
The Christian church I grew up in, and the similar but different denominations that friends grew up in, all say the same thing, that if one does not accept Jesus into their heart as your lord and savior and ask him for forgiveness of your sins, then you go to hell. That seems pretty standard belief regarding Christianity. Are you trying to imply otherwise?
Are you saying that all the controversy with the Baptists saying they you must believe that Jesus is the Savior in order to be saved is wrong–without scriptural justification? That you don’t have to believe? If so, we need to spread the word.
My point, as always, is that what is being challenged is doctrinal.
And as such, the doctrine needs to be clarified.
Without it, we have only the Bible, and well…I think from the thousands of branches; it’s evident that this is not directly going to resolve anything for your inquiring mind regarding Christian practices in modern western (probably American) culture.
Therefore, provide a doctrine to look at.
All of Christianity?
Alright, let’s pull up some of the various African Orthodoxy and see what’s established?
Not what you meant?
A Christian who used to post on ILP mentioned an escape clause in the Gospels that made clear that it is the rejection of the Gospels that is the real crime. So people who never encounter the Gospels get evaluated by God on the same standard as those who lived pre-Jesus.
That is, in-and-of-itself, a hotly contested issue – and by that I mean: it is a real pickle for most Christians
Yes this seems the most logical “out” for Christians regarding this problem. But of course, if this is the answer, we are left to wonder why a person would preach the word of God at all to those who have never heard it sufficiently - assuming you are preaching to those who are, on average, decent people in life, your preaching to them of the Gospels would be creating more sinners immediately, and assuming some of these good people will not repent then by preaching a person is literally sending people to hell.
And certainly we have the additional problem of those people who do hear about the Gospels but reject it for any number of reasons, many of which can be more than justified - we also do know that religious “instincts” are in part genetic, and in another large part environmental (why do you think most geographic regions of A religion tend to produce a next generation that is, mostly, A religion?) So right away we have some people who have the odds stacked against them, who might not sufficiently accept Jesus despite hearing about him briefly here or there, and now suddenly they cannot get into heaven despite their being good people, while a “bad” person (think Hitler) who asks for forgiveness on his deathbed will enter heaven. Seems somewhat unfair for a loving God to set up such a double standard, and to “hold it against” an otherwise good person who heard the name of Jesus once or twice in their lifetime but didnt pay attention.
From a Christian perspective, it seems reasonable to assume that the post-death survival rate of humans is much greater than a pre-Christian one. So, it makes sense if one were to want to save as many as possible, one ought spread the Gospel. Furthermore, I believe the Gospels contain a command to spread the Gospels, so whether it is right or wrong, it is right in the eyes of their god, which is all that matters.
You are assuming that God’s notion of mercy and love are analogous to our own. I care for my mice, I feed them, I breed them, I water them. Directly or indirectly, I take care of damned near every aspect of their lives. Some don’t have the genotype I desire, so they die and early death. Some have what I want but because of circumstances absolutely beyond their control, so they die an early death. And those that have precisely what I desire – well, they ain’t long for this world either! And that is mice! I can talk about sacrificing dozens of mice. When it comes to bacteria, I am a very capricious god! I kill billions of them in the quest for, maybe, two bacteria that I want. The mice and bacteria almost certainly do not understand my motivations. But they remain beholden to them. Could I see to it that every mouse in my possession lived, that every bacterium survived? Not without betraying the reasons why I have them in the first place.
What makes every single person so special that God ought care?
I agree with you, rationally it makes little sense to suppose that God “loves us all equally and absolutely”, and yet this is the common Christian belief. So we have here merely another presentation of the contradiction within that belief.
