Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God’s culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose “A” or “B” (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of “being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent” and “desiring to eat a forbidden fruit” must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and “free will” means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

These links speak to theistic evolution. … _A&index=9

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of it’s nature and instincts.

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?



Wrong answer.

Amazing, really, because there are so few really wrong answers to his post.

To the contrary, dismissal is the only right answer to Greatest’s posts. A little more experience and you’ll see that.

x - 1x

If by not doing evil it would mean that you could never be part of a causal chain leading to suffering, then one could not help but be evil. But Christians very likely do take into account ‘the situation’ and for one to have been considered to do evil in any non-trivial sense, one has to have been able to avoid doing the evil thing - or having the evil feeling a la Jesus’ nuancing the 10 commandments. Christians are openly dualists, even Christians on the street. We have the physical vs. the soul, the time bound vs. the eternal. So the idea is that you resist the gross, physical, desire laden material portions of the temporary self, that would lead one to do avoidable harm and badness. This is not the World of perfection, this is a kind of fallen realm. What one is asked to do is to avoid as much doing of evil as possible, which means the more spiritual parts Control the less so. And this drama/struggle is part of the perfect plan/test/gauntlet God has made, and presumably the universe would not be serving as wonderful a purpose if it was otherwise or if our natures were single.

It’s not my belief system, but you seem not to quite get it, as your critique seems off the mark. You bring in evolution. It is precisely a good deal of what the Christians Think is our animal nature, the beast within, that we are supposed to suppress, even if it harms us as individuals. Evolutionary theory is monist. Christianity is explicitly dualist and worldly success is not the primary goal.

You can disagree, but it seems like you are saying Christianity makes no sense.

Doesn’t the bible say something about everyone being a sinner?

He could just say that he knows his shit and you don’t. And that you won’t get anywhere with him by scoffing. Remember that?

I think that if you really did find his arguments so easy to refute you wouldn’t act condescending by writing “Yawn” and stuff like that. Anybody can come to any thread and act condescending. I could go to a science forum on a Quantum Mechanics (about which I know next to nothing about) thread and go like “Yawn, bro, you fuckers don’t know anything, dismissal is the best way to deal with you blah blah” but who would take me seriously?

His post looks to me like a thoughtful grappling with some of the most essential questions that face serious, philosophically inclined people. Active dismissal of such a post, on a philosophy forum, suggests that you have no actual interest and are only here for political reasons.

I say “active” dismissal because just being sick of something and ignoring it is perfectly understandable.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt




The bible does not have an original sin concept and neither do the Jewish interpretations of Eden.

Christian dogma and tradition does. It sees Eden as our fall while the Jews saw it as our elevation.

It is a Jewish myth and the Christians are not interpreting it correctly.

There is more money if the sheep are down and need a hand up to their wallets.