It is a basic Law that every Cause creates an Effect.
Effect in turn creates the conditions for further Cause.
If we follow this chain of Cause and Effect from the moment a singularity Caused the Big Bang on-wards, we see that the logical repercussions and conditions of the Effects that follow each Cause, gradually brings increasing order and balance to the chaotic conditions of the initial explosion.
Thus eventually, evolving from prior Cause, came the Effective creation of molecular life - and from that creative Cause came an Effective reflective consciousness, which has accelerated the chain reaction of Cause and Effect
Since Consciousness could not have evolved out of a vacuum, its eventual emergeance in human form, from prior Cause had to be Effected by a designated purpose - by design.
And because the beneficial designs of the Effects that follow Cause continues to become increasingly ordered and balanced, the logical end result of Cause and effect is perfect order.
Perfection of course is the central attribute of Divine Consciousness
Thus the Universe was Created by Divine Design. QED
That’s an untrue assumption. The cause had to be there for the effect, but there’s nothing to say the cause wasn’t random. You’ve kind of got an anthropic principle thing going.
Entropy always increases. Assuming the Big Bang model you used, the singularity was perfect order…seems we’re going away from that.
The random effect is always subordinate to to the evolutionary momentum and the purposeful effects resulting from causation. Randomness (purposeless energy) creates weird anomalies and mutations that always die out. The main principle of ordered progression remains. (I think in this context regarding the esoteric behavior of nuclear energy, Einstein was intuitively right and Bohr was analytically wrong.)
The Evolution of Consciousness is a cycle that begins and ends in the same place.
We are at a point of maximum separation. The ego self reflects the Cosmic self. Our ignorance is fully exposed.
The return to Grace is inevitable
By evolutionary, do you mean evolution of life? The evolution of life is based on random mutations…the useful ones just happen to stick around. It’s very easy to confuse purpose with usefulness. It’s very impossible to know if there is a purpose and a hand guiding our evolution, but what we do know is that it appears to work one way, with or without some higher power telling it to do so.
If the universe was random, I mean unstructured total random crap, there would be a bunch of random static in the air, no stable “laws”, patterns, chemicals or dimensions.
Randomness does not generally exist in reality, only super-complexity beyond human comprehention is claimed to be “random”.
The planet earth is more complex than a biological individual little bit of life. That planet still formed by natural means and natural process, over a very long time, and not instantaniously.
Also causes and effects are not separate things. Both cause and effect are the same, and they operate under and within a unified system. The only way one can say that objects are separate, is by space. Separateness of anything is only a space-based concept. But, space is a substantial field and it is not a form of separation, therefor “things” are not “separate” by, from or because of space. And when one sees “cause and effect”, this is actually a unified whole process which operates on many levels in many phases through many components.
I’d like some evidence for that kind of statement.
How can you separate our atomic structure from all others? Organic Life evolving into a self-refelctive consciousness is the logical end product of the original atomic explosion. Everything from then onwards was part of the evolutionary process.
Explain “just happen to stick around”.
Please provide an example.
Objectively yes. But there are literally millions of subjective affirmations. You can call them all liars are self-deluders if you like. Thats your prerogative.
It is not a “higher power” giving instructions - just an unclouded state of consciousness experiencing beingness.
God does not play dice with the universe.
If you accept that consciousness, energy and matter are all one and the same thing (the Divine Triune of you like)
then a self-reflective consciousness is the end product of Creation. Our human ego is a phantom creation designed by Consciousness to analyse itsellf. Obviously for no material reason other than amusement. This is a subjective assessement. Each seeker comes to their own conclusions. It cannot be rationalized. No two human beings see God in the same way.
Tailhard De Chardin explained it beautifully for himself.
Because it’s a separate phenomenon…the ‘evolution’ of planets suitable of life was necessary to the evolution of life, but the evolution of planets does not necessitate the evolution of life.
A useful adaptation, like maybe a hummingbird mutating and getting a longer beak, will stick around because the animal has a better chance to survive and pass on that mutated gene. If it got a shorter beak, the hummingbird has a greater chance of dying before passing on its less useful genes.
Certainly. It seems, from a very human-biased perspective like Christianity, that the purpose of a horse or any other ‘beast of burden’ is to work for us. Really, they are big and strong because it was useful to their survival. It may seem like our brain has a God-intended purpose, but it was useful to our survival. Again, this isn’t to say something else isn’t guiding our evolution, but what we know is that it looks as if we are evolving due to natural processes.
Oh?
Which is it?
Then what’s perfect about it? It just seems like it is, and perfection has no place.
Assuming God exists…we still don’t know
I like this kind of thought, but again, why bring in the ‘perfection’ and ‘divine’?
And if these elements produce consciousness, why are they not also conscious throughout the planet - and the Cosmos?
You are simply using different words to repeat the purposeful nature of Cause and Effect
I do not see anybody being confused by the different purposes and uses of a horse. Though I do see the science-indoctrinated brain being confused about its purpose. What is science seeking if not the universal unfying principle?
What then is the place of perfection?
God can never be known. It is a matter of Belief. Belief is a matter of inner conviction. Conviction cannot surface unless there is Faith. A being without faith is in need of compassion. Out of Compasssion, God comes to comfort them. Thus conviction arises and the pilgrim becomes a Believer.
Because it is good to have these thoughts. And if they are uncontamionated by doubt, they make one feel perfectly Divine.
Well said, Dan~. All ‘components’ being in constant flux and infinitely interconnected. In Buddhism, this is referred to as the principle of dependent origination.
I think neither a biologist or a geologist would agree with that.
All atomic associations are complex. All are conscious. No form of consciousness is more complex than another - all are manifestations of the same consciousness
Not well said, since his opening statement contradicts the second.
Who’s claiming consciousness evolved in a vacuum? From what little I understand of evolution, the story goes that consciousness evolved in environments in which it became adventitious to be conscious. Thus, consciousness, which is brought on by an abnormally large brain, is no different or more special than, say, the development of the pistol shrimp’s ability to kill nearby fish by snapping it’s claw together with tremendous pressure.
That is completely besides the point…begging the question, if you will. Your argument was a ‘proof’ of God. Then you went and said that God can never be known. The two are mutually exclusive.
I was proving that God exists and has purpose. I never said He could be known.
I have enjoyed our debate, so I will give you the whole toot. I was baptised as a Christian and raised as one. At 21 I became the expected reactionary atheist - and very vocal at that. At 33 I saw the Light - literaly - and have been suffering from Divine madness ever since.
Yes, I am a Christian, Also a Buddhist and Hindu and Moslem. I like to think of myself as a meta-physician.
I have worshipped in all venues and have found God everywhere. I am officially listed in the Soto Zen headquarters at Eiheiji, as a duly ordained Buddhist minister - done the hard way - in a Japanese training monastery.
I exist and have purpose. I can exhibit purpose for you to see and marvel at and even let you catch a glimpse of me - yet you will still have no idea of who I am or what I am capable of.
Enough to know He is witness to Everything. That He gives meaning to Everything. That he brings light to Everything.
Enough to know that the alternative to His existenece is meaningless and ultimately boring.
But why He is and how He came into existence and what His ultimate purpose is, remains unkown to me.
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