Challege to Zeroeth Nature viz. Self-Lightening

[Zeroeth_Nature (Self-Lightening, ΑΘΕΛΗΜΑ,)]

@promethean75

“I suppose this only confirms the subjectivity of beauty”

Remember, yes and no. No, because ‘ugly’ is an objective appearance in nature when something observes the decline of its type. We already established that. So, a group of Xs will ALL make the judgment ‘ugly’ when they see a decline.

But does that make it objective, or only intersubjective? At most we could say it’s an objective fact that, to subjects of type X, this and this is ugly. (Note though that the whole “type” thing is already a simplification: thus we could paraphrase Stirner as saying “I am my own type” (and not just “species”).)

@promethean75

Example: obesity is objectively ugly, and anyone who tells you they don’t think it’s ugly is lying.

Well, Merriam-Webster defines “obese” simply as “having excessive body fat”.

Definition of OBESE

But fat reserves are not excessive (or the excess that they are is itself not excessive). So again it depends on the environment. What’s obese on the Riviera may not be obese in Siberia.

@promethean75

Here, the decline of man in general is seen, and there is nothing subjective felt about the repulsion, the caution, the the wanting to distance oneself from this thing.

But we are dealing with sets, so there’s subjectivity here, too. Take Y and Z, each share the objective judgment ‘ugly’ with N when they see a fatty. But there are things about N that Z thinks are ugly,

His mustache?

@promethean75

and things about Z that Y thinks are ugly. These sets divide almost infinitely because of the cultural diversity of the animal man, and a whole world of illusory aesthetic qualities emerges. For instance greasers think socs(socials) are culturally ugly and vice versa. But these cultures don’t exist. They’re all just individuals who, while sharing the opinion that obesity is objectively ugly, have disagreements about such things as attitude, privilege, duty, all of which are dubious concepts and don’t even really exist. Conceptual spooks, as it were. Ugly and beautiful here are fleeting subjective contingencies. This is why i trust only my instincts and my nose.

About them scary-ass tigers. It’s bro’s teeth that are subliminally fucking you up. Those whitening toothpaste commercials have developed an intolerance for perfectly white teeth, and any time you see them, your instinct tells you “damn brush your teeth scary-ass tiger.”

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

@promethean75

Yeah, there’s no way you can’t think that fear, that warning, isn’t pure savage beauty.

Well, N defined fear as the feeling of a lack of power. So if every thing of power is a sight to behold, every thing of fear is surely unsightly.

@promethean75

Bro a fuckin tiger could be takin a shit and he’s still the most magnificent creature in his whole hood. I don’t know what you’re on about.

Calling fear ugly is a relatively impolite judgment against all of the animal kingdom, too. Fear is when we are most alone, most tormented, most uncertain, and this deserves nothing but admiration and respect.

No. Being those things deserves none of these things. What “matters” is our response to those things.

@promethean75

In the war of all against all, there will be entire types superior to others who will cower in their presence. But this is a natural order, and anyone’s fear is… the strength of their survival mechanism, call it. A scared creature ‘goes to work’ and is most engaged with trying to stay alive. How can that not be beautiful?!

‘Only freedom confers dignity—or, as Nietzsche implies later, labour in the service of freedom […]
But how is the genius (i.e., in this context, the Apollinian genius) free? Free from the (semi-)Schopenhauerian ‘will’? The answer is: “Only apparently; not actually” […]
The—Apollinian—genius is the beautiful world of the primordial will; his artistic creations are the supreme pleasure-goal of that will. The primordial will, the Primordial One Itself, then, is successfully deluded by such genius. And if even the Primordial One is deluded, what relevant distinction can there then be left between this delusion and the truth? For this reason, the seeming freedom of the Apollinian genius confers actual dignity on all who work in his service.’

Nietzsche's 'The Greek State' revisited.

For myself. This is a paragraph-by-paragraph reading of Nietzsche’s early essay, ‘The Greek State’. In order to completely understand this essay, I think one must have practical knowledge of Nietzsche’s early metaphysics. The fourteen paragraphs. [size=95]We moderns have an advantage over the Greeks in two ideas, which are given as it were as a compensation to a world behaving thoroughly slavishly and yet at the same time anxiously eschewing the word “slave”: we talk of the “dignity of man…

Ah, but there most probably is no Primordial One…