and after reading smears other thread I’ve decided I don’t want to be an arrogant little berk that parades around trying to convince everyone else he is correct.
sooooo…I retract my previous statement of trying to make you not believe.
because ultimately…whatever makes you happy is best for you.
just please don’t tell me you’re a ba’al t’shuvah through chabad.
whew easy take a breath… i havent been molested nor has anyone i know been molested… i have had only amazing rabbis i have not met any especially corrupt people in my days, any more than the normal that you would expect in and society, i have never been intimidated and the restrictions are the best of our whole religion… it is our kosher laws that allow us to appreciate food, our shabbos laws that allow us to appreciate rest, our NIDDAH LAWS that keep us married, and i say that with the greatest of enthusiasm… it is nidah and nidah alone that keeps the divorce rate more than 50 percentage points lower than the avereage societal marraige. The laws allow us to enjoy, not to feel restrained. so no, Judaism is not what is making you hate so bad, maybe it is something specific in your past that is manifesting itself as a hate towards the whole religion… life is too precious to throw away over something stupid that someone may have done to you!
lol no chabad in me… im frum from birth. are you married?
what bothers me so bad is that your statements are so illogical… you said… I hate god for letting it all happen. what the hell is that supposed to mean… to you hate god or do you not believe in him, bec there is a crucial difference between the two!
koifer wrote:
god is a contradiction. If he is everything I should be able to impose my restrictions and still find a logical reason for him. Conversely I shouldn’t be able to understand him at all. That is how god should work if he is real. Explaining it away with faith issues doesn’t do much. Saying he is beyond our understanding or “ununderstandable” is also limiting him.
you have this terrible misconception about judaism my friend! In order for us to earn reward, we must be challenged, and in order for us to be challenged there must be an alternate explanation for everything on earth… otherwise it would be a no brainer to believe in god. so there is no contradiction whatsoever. that which we understand about god is great but that which we do not poses no difficulties towards the jewish understanding of god!
sure. maybe YOU weren’t molested. maybe YOU haven’t seen the corruption…but I have.
I’m tired of seeing bochurim in yeshiva becoming homosexual because of the stupid halachos surrounding girls. Then their sexual stance (coming about because of the rabbi’s instituions) is something they must be ashamed of and even fear being punished for.
I think I have a fine understanding of judaism. I think I have a fine understanding that the gemara is written by man.
what about the millionaire rebbeim? what about williamsburg? the people are living in poverty while the holy rebbe sits on millions of dollars. the only rebbe I have respect for is the gerrer rebbe. at least he tries. sort of.
and the ruach ha’kodesh these rebbeim supposedly posses? they tap lines, they follow you around. this isn’t a conspiracy…it’s a well known fact. then they call you in for yechidus and if you’re lucky you get off with a verbal warning. if not you get beat up. I’ve seen it happen. everyone knows about the shomerim in meah shearim, williamsburg, and even boro park. they’re thugs. that’s all there is to it. one of my best friends is gay. he was followed around because it leaked. he was beat up.
and when I say I hate god…I don’t say that as if I still believe in him. you know how I meant it.
no I am not married, B"H. I am not saying any more because I don’t feel comfortable giving that much information away on the internet.
I’m tired of the whole “mitzvos make you free” spiel. I’ve been there, done that. I’ve davened with plenty of kavana. I’ve sat through shacharis crying. I’ve davened at the rate of toldos aharon. DIDN’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
the best part of all of it is…most of these motherfuckers don’t even believe. they go about with a frummer than thou attitude…but you know they look at porn or watch tv in their home. I bet if they could get away with it they’d break shabbos. nobody gives a shit anymore. it’s all about control. the kosher cell phone. banning strawberries? I mean come on! and everyone follows because they’ve set us up. we don’t know english, we don’t have high school diplomas, we don’t know how to act in normal society. everyone stays for comfort.
so I’m guessing you’re either modern or litvak. I’m not saying all of this to sway you. I’m just telling you it isn’t a deep seeded hate of something else. it is the life. it is all bullshit. you’re not chassidic…it’s obvious. you couldn’t know. I’m tired of walking around in my reckel and payos. I’d love to be normal. to live freely. it doesn’t make a difference. if god supposedly punishes everyone who transgresses…what is happening to everyone who frei’d out? nothing.
NIDDAH IS KEEPING US MARRIED???!!! BULLSHIT.
I didn’t read this before posting my last statement. you MUST be modern. any good litvak would understand it’s intimidation that keeps us married. marriage isn’t about love. it’s about your bashert. you know that. most people ARE MISERABLE. I know…from experience. try my parents. men aren’t taught how to interact with their wives so they spend more time down at the kollel and treat their wives as though they’re baby makers. they’d get a divorce if they wouldn’t be disowned by everyone in the community. niddah makes men look at porn. niddah makes them masturbate. not their lack of self control. I can only have sex with my wife twice a month??? what kind of shit is that? to explain…since you’re obviously not charedi…the friday night mitzvah is the only time you’re allowed to do the deed in the chassidic world. it’s bullshit.
I’ve always felt restrained. even when I believed. please explain that.
Excuse me, i am not chareidy… i am actually ben achar ben from a huge prominent chassideshe rebbe. I have not been brought up with the “garb” and the look of a chassidishe yid, but i know it all too well. both of my grandfathers were very important people in their shtiblach. I get it. And i get that you’ve seen pain, i get that you have seen the corruption… and you have totally missed my point on the fact that i haven’t seen it… i mean that the whole population is not tainted if there are a few bad seeds! Your community (probably boro park) is a very difficult place to live… with emphasis on the whole community given there is very little room for self-worth and therefore very little will for self-growth. You are filled with hatred towards a small sample of our ever growing jewish population. The homosexuality is a problem, but a rare one! I know two guys who went on that path because of “sexual frustration” but i know thousands that have not! I know that my Alta Zeida did not proclaim that he had ruach hakodesh, he did not tap people’s phones, and he was definately NOT rich. Stop generalizing. There are many people in your community who are genuinely happy, i know many of them personally. My mother was brought up there, my parents lived there for a period of time, it has its problems, but it doesnt come close to how bad you say it is.
Koifer said:
I didn’t read this before posting my last statement. you MUST be modern. any good litvak would understand it’s intimidation that keeps us married. marriage isn’t about love. it’s about your bashert. you know that. most people ARE MISERABLE. I know…from experience. try my parents. men aren’t taught how to interact with their wives so they spend more time down at the kollel and treat their wives as though they’re baby makers. they’d get a divorce if they wouldn’t be disowned by everyone in the community. niddah makes men look at porn. niddah makes them masturbate. not their lack of self control. I can only have sex with my wife twice a month??? what kind of shit is that? to explain…since you’re obviously not charedi…the friday night mitzvah is the only time you’re allowed to do the deed in the chassidic world. it’s bullshit.
By the way, don’t trust all the rumors that you hear about the “Chassidishe world” because that is the biggest load of crap that i have ever heard. It is not halachically possible to say that friday nights are the only time that you can have sex, because you are mandated to have sex on the night that your wife finishes her twelve day cycle period (5 bleeding days, and 7 clean days) Since during those 12 days you are restraining yourself from intimacy, you regain the lust for your wife which can so quickly fleet away. Let me tell you something Mr. Koifer, as a happily married guy i can tell you that nidah keeps me married, thats number 1, it keeps my marraige vibrant and lively. I can also guarantee that anyone who has kept the laws properly for ten years will be having MORE (not better) MORE sex then any non-religious or non-jewish couple. Its a simple calculation really, restrain yourself sometimes, keep up the excitement, dont restain yourself at all, lose the enjoyment. The guy that i learnt the laws from told me that after 35 years of marraige, afetr every time his wife comes back from the mikva, its like the night that they got married all over again.
You know it is the immediate gratification that tempts us all. Noone says, look how happy that couple is, or look how precious thnose children are “i want that” no. we covet the stupid mundane things in life like cars money and meaningless sex. It gets you nowhere and the enjoyment is so lacking that you must continue to get more of those same stupid things in order to feel that happiness again. Try looking for things that will give you a delayed, but true feeling of happiness, instead of coveting and dying for the things which wont even make you truly happy in the first place.
I am Christian. If you are of an orthodoxical nature in your Jewish faith and adhere to the Ten Commandments, I would suggest you stay your ground. If for some reason you decide to become a Christian, then I don’t see a conflict. As far as I’m concerned, we worship the same God.
It’s pointless talking to you about it. You aren’t chassidic so you don’t know. From the outside everything probably looks great. YOU aren’t in yeshiva. YOU haven’t been to yeshivos in three different countries. I’ve seen the prevalence of homosexuality. I’ve seen the way they look at you in the mikvah. As you’re not chassidic…you wouldn’t be in one frequently enough to understand this. And even if you DO know many bochurim…how would you know if they’re gay? Unless you’ve been in the rooms, the mikvah with them, you won’t know. They’ll be disowned if they say anything.
I can’t believe you’re telling me it’s not as bad as I say it is. Talk to any chussid willing to tell the truth. Read “The Unchosen” it isn’t a few stories. These aren’t generalizations. This is life. You won’t accept it. I know it. You’d rather believe jews aren’t capable of this. You’d rather think I am pinning all of this on a few bad people. I’m not. You won’t believe me so I’m not going to reply after this.
Okay…maybe YOUR zeidy wasn’t rich…but have you seen the bank account of the satmarer (both brothers) rebbe? The viznitz? Puppa? They’re all loaded. How many followers do they have? Thousands. How many of those are dirt poor with ten children? Most. What do they always preach? Tzedoka. Maybe they should try it.
Quit telling me what will make me truly happy. I’ve lived this life. I’ve believed. None of it made me happy. Don’t you get it? Just because it makes YOU happy doesn’t mean it makes ME happy.
so tell me koifer, what is it that will make you truly happy? what is it that you aspire to? what would you like to do in your life that you will be able to look back upon and feel accomplished?
I want to write a book. I want to learn formal logic. I wish to move to europe. to escape. a simple house in the countryside. this is what would make me happy.
I want to learn art. to understand literature. to taste new things. visit new places. send my children to public school. I want to be a master chef. to taste traife wine. I would even like to smoke pot.
many things drive me. many things I wish to see and experience. this life won’t take me to those things. I wish to be rid of this life. that is what would make me truly happy.
DO you really think that you will feel accomplished when you die and see the epitaph on your tombstone that states" Ahhh the Koifer, he drank traif wine, knew some crap about literature, knew how to formulate and articulate logic and lived in Europe on the countryside for all his days" What lasting benefit do ANY of your goals and aspirations have for you???
you’re beating a dead horse. I don’t believe. therefore having “he davened shacharis everyday, never missed a bracha, and lived out his life poor in williamsburg” wouldn’t make me feel accomplished either.
what would those things do for me? they would satisfy me. keeping kosher, davening, all of these things don’t do anything for me. maybe if you were dealing with a rebel who still believed somewhat. the problem is, I don’t.
once it’s all said and done…if I’m wrong…I get punished for a while and go to heaven. if I’m not…well I didn’t waste my life on god.
I want to live my life how I want to. I’m tired of my entire life being dictated from what side I lay on during sleep, how I wipe my ass, how I put on and tie my shoes. it’s ridiculous. I would be happy to escape it all.
why are you focusing on the Bayn udum l’mokoms??? I would never consider those to be things that would make me feel happy. The whole concept between all of these wierd laws that we have is so we learn to understand that we are not all that matters in the world. That understanding will in time hopefully lead to us behaving appropriately with other people; and that is what makes us happy! Sure, many people would say that it feels good to daven with kavanah, or saying a bracha, only because there is a sense of clarity there in which you are able to understand the purpose of our creation. Unfortunately, these views have been truly washed away with time and some terribly mistaken Rabbanim have taken all the emphasis away from Veahavta L’reyacha Kamocha and have turned their attention to the insignificant mishigasim like spending $150 on a freakin esrog! God did not intend for us to manipulate the mitzvos to go and turn them into a quick money making scheme, nor did he intend for mikvas to be a doorway to the obsene, as you have refered to it as. I go to the mikvah before Rosh Hashana and yom kippur and that makes me feel pure… i find it embarrassing to be undressed in front of people, i guess, put god before me. The extra stuff that has been piled on to Judaism like sleeping on your side or other things of that nature have really cast a horrifying light on what should be a wonderful way of life.
You want to feel true enjoyment, stop looking at Judaism the way everyone wants you to. Read the Torah the way it was intended, try to do what god intended to begin with. Start from the beginnning, would you like to hear the most telling piece of evidence for the existence of god?
you know what? I would like to hear it. the sinai revelation? because that also has faults. please tell me it’s something different.
but I really don’t feel like replying to the rest. sorry. not to be rude…just worn out about this.
and by the way…what side you sleep on…wipe your ass…the shoes…that’s mamish halacha. go look it up in the kitzur shulchan aruch.
Okay i am going to play the part of devil’s advocate(the athiest) and the part of the jew, have an open mind, you may be quite entrigued!
Athiest= 
Prove to me that god exists.
Jew= =D> No problem… Who do you believe wrote the bible?
It was written a few thousand years ago by either a man or a committee of people.
=D> Was this man or men wise in your opinion?
Not neccesarily, why do you ask?
=D> Well they had to convince thousands of people over thousands of years that a non-human being actually wrote it, that, in my opinion, is a pretty difficult task, don’t you think?
Okay i’ll grant you that, so what if he was smart; what does that prove???
=D> Well there is one place in the Torah in which one would have serious difficulties with.
Like what?
=D> Well have you heard of Kashrus? Laws of eating kosher?
Yeah, I’ve heard of it what about it?
=D> Well in Parshas Vayikrah, the Torah states that there are certain signs that one must look for in an animal to determine whether that animal is kosher or not.
And…??
=D> Well to sum it up, the Torah says that if an animal has both split hooves and chews its cud then it is kosher; if it has but one or none, it may not be eaten… At this point, can one now make a determination as to whether any animal on the planet is kosher?
well, yeah, if you told me that it must have both signs, and i determine that the animal that i am investigating has but one, i am now able to ascertain that the animal is non-lkosher.
=D> So before i make my point, where were the scrolls found/ written?
Presumably in the middle east… where are you going with this?
=D> Well the next Passuk makes the most dangerous and curious question in the entire torah, this pasuk LIST THE FOUR ANIMALS IN THE WORLD THAT HAVE ONLY ONE SIGN?!? Now please hear how perplexing this is… should it not have said these animals, we would not have wondered why this information is missing, it was totally inconsequential and purposelessly put the validity of the entire torah on the line!
Go on…
=D> Well, there are two real serious questions to be asked here… The lesser one is how did they know??? How did a comittee of people from the middle east know every animal in the world, when they had yet to see the Americas, Australia and Antarctica?
Well that proves nothing, because they could have just gotten lucky with their assumption that these four that they knew of were the only ones!
=D> I figured you would say that, that is the answer of someone in denial… but the second proof is so much more telling, and that is the question of WHY!? why would this committee , whom you already agreed with me were wise and logical men, take the risk of putting this magnifiscent piece of work known as the bible at risk. You must admit that should an additional, fifth animal, present itself in the world, then the whole Torah would be worthless. There is no way a book can be written by god with incorrect information about the creations that he claims to have created. The only one confident enough to make a statement as bold as that is the One who created everything on Earth, and therefore knows that a fifth animal will never be discovered.
Now Koifer it is because of this proof that I walk around as a confident believer in God.
yeah yeah yeah. I’ve heard this before. unfortunately you’re assuming a lot on behalf of the writers. you’re also forgetting the gullibility of humans…especially ancient ones. and besides…they invented the gemara for all the other mistakes they had. they could have easily thought that if the problem arose they could pass it down as oral and not written law.
What mistakes are you talking about? And do you REALLY believe that they got lucky about how many of those animals there are, when thousands of species have been discovered since then all around the world and none have challenged their statement??? Do you REALLY belive that it is by chance???