Christians Please Read

Christians beleive that they will go to heaven if they beleive in jesus christ… correct?

So the pope and the worst man alive that beleives in jesus christ will go to heaven?

But a belief has practical consequences. If belief in Jesus has no pratical consequences, the belief is not genuine.

Ah, yet another one secretly, subconsciously, hoping to be made a believer by protesting a bit too loudly.

Sorry, my friend. Find Him on your own time. It’s late and I am out of patience for tonight.

I dont think its proper to mix practicality with religion in that sense thats just telling people to lead themselves and abstract the statement " if you beleive in jesus christ you go to heaven"

And i have another question… is clubbing a sin?

Are you attempting to disprove Christianity in two sentences?

What is a religion with a flaw? God is perfect, his religion is perfect… eh?

In the end, a little speck of flaw, the smallest sin, will not allow you have a position in the heaven. Nobody’s perfect. Everybody’s sinned.

That done, no matter how holy you are and how bad you are, you are just as bad in the eyes of God. Because we, humans, evaluate using a different perspective of judgement, that we try to approach God’s judgement with our own. That is wrong.

Yeah. You believe in Jesus Christ, and you accept Him. Then you are saved.

But this does justify you from commiting sins. In the Bible it’s written, “Faith without action is death.” Or something along that line. Once you’ve believed in Jesus Christ, it’s your responsibility to bear His cross, deny yourself and follow Him. To be holy, to be good, etc… Even though deeds do not grant you salvation. Clear enough?

If you go clubbing you won’t go to hell after your death : you’re already there :laughing:

This is precisely why I’m not a fundamentalist. It’s irrational to make flawed, finite creatures and hold them to an infallible standard in terms of judging their willingness to be good. If God wanted to, he could have made us infallible. He did not. If God is to be considered just then, he would not then punish us for our fallibility!

As far as all this “believe or be damned” stuff, and variations on the theme, doesn’t it seem weird to anyone that someone would need to issue threats - believe in this or else, when mere demonstration would solve the issue? God doesn’t need to threaten us into believing that he exists, nor do His followers.
It seems an appalling standard of right and wrong to me to damn impenitent, but benificient and good people, and save pious axe murderers! How can you fit “good” around anyone holding such standards. What do you mean when you say “God is good?” What do you mean by justice when you say “God is just?” These words have definitions, they can’t fill in for describing just any attribute.

Why does belief become the most important thing? Why is unbelief considered an unforgivable sin? Of all the things which cause pain, death, and evil in the world, I am to believe that all of this can be forgiven, but not believing you cannot? It sounds more like a recipe for control to me, than a legitimate judgement of morality.

My sympathie go to Thomas Aquinus : follow your conscience… That’s your only true judge, according to him.

For that matter, who has actually been faithful to Jesus? Someone who actually follows his commandment, and loves his neighbor, whether he knows of or believes in the Bible or not? Or someone who shouts the right names for God in Church on Sunday? Ridiculous.

Well, you can just check gospels on that matter, even Christ is clear : it’s not the one that pray, who is saved (but this word is dangerous : I don’t feel like I need a lifesaver), but the one who does good (love etc. ) : we are men before anything… But that’s a catholic answer… brrrrr…

Haha. God does not judge you for your fallibility, but for every action that you do, so the Scripture said. That every man will be judged not according to who they are, but what they did.

EVEN so, deeds do not grant you salvation. BUT commiting sin is still WORSE than not. Why? Because no matter what, sins will be accounted for and are consequential. The WORST consequence for sin is death (Hell). But, even if you escape hell, it doesn’t make sin without consequence.

For every wrong, there must be a punishment. For every good deed, there must be reward. And it’s also said that your reward will be plenty in the heavens if you do good things.

About “believe and be saved. or not and be doomed.” Funny isn’t it? Heheh. It sounds a little bit too easy. Well, it’s actually not that easy cuz it’s damn hard to make people believe. Isn’t that right, you non-believers out there? :smiley: (I mean. You who do not believe in this Christianity stuff. Not without beliefs :wink:)

That’s because we can’t comprehend God’s sovereignity and His love yet I guess. He gave TWO possible ways to enter the kingdom of heavens: Obey the ten commandments, or believe and accept Jesus Christ as your only saviour.

To which, the former, nobody could. The latter, everybody could.

Fancy how God plans eh? Yeah.

The logic of the religion goes a little like this: if you accept Jesus as your savior then you are forgiven for your sins. This could all take place a microsecond before you die. However, you can’t be said to actually believe in him if you continue to be the worst man alive.

However, there may be acceptions for people that really, really struggle with sinful behavior and are having trouble with self-control.

The original post is not entirely informed.

as a philosopher i am aloud to bypass religion in my own words so here we go evryone.

god=any self manifestation and sacrificial being who does as he promises
but with no evil left he must take in that place as the next more powerful
one stands up from his nature there must be a little sin to have unbreakable virtue at least thats how i take it, and anybody has the right to call god “evil”
becuase no matter dream or reality they have freedom to manifest there beliefs from fear and mystery that drives them into the hands of fate or judgment.

Someone once said, ‘It will not be by your actions alone that he will judge you, but by your intentions.’

Belief should not ever be taken lightly.

Whilst the ‘worst man alive’ may accept Jesus as his savior, microseconds before he dies - he’s belief may not be so; he may simply accept in the case that there is actually a God and a heaven.

If this were the situation, then in assuming I would have to say no, God would not allow this man into heaven - but then, it is only an assumption and can never be anything more.


why 2, i can do it in 3 words.
No conclusive evidence

There is NO hard evidence to suggest that jesus was god’s son therefore based on all the facts available, he wasn’t. simple as that.


Do you consider Empiricism as the supreme deity?


Absence of empirical evidence is not an automatic slide into nontruth or nonexistence. As in principle (and in practice?) there is something that exists despite leaving no trace on our evidence.

(The private, internal, subjective experience of other people!)

Jesus being the Son of God is a nonempirical belief. None of us was there 2000 years in the past to witness empirical proof of this (if it obtained)…we can only believe or disbelieve written material (like the bible).

But nonempirical beliefs themselves cannot be disproven, and neither can they be positively ruled out, as a theist can certainly propose a theological world that exactly mirrors the world that we experience. Does this necessitate that the theist is only making things up? No. Higher causal factors could cause a human brain to imagine what the higher intelligence wants the brain to imagine, taking the form of fiction, but telling of a nonempirical fact.

Don’t believe in a higher causal factor beyond random chance and the laws of physics? David Hume stated that we cannot undeniably ground knowledge of the true nature of cause and effect, we simply see the obvious and form inferential conclusions, not knowing if those conclusions are actually the right ones.

At the end of the day, Jesus as the Son of God may never be proven, but it certainly cannot be ruled out. If one claims to do this, then one is claiming an undeniable truth using some mysterious faculty of the mind that is certainly not empirical…and only dumb theists do that, don’t they?


Incorrect. Most Christians commonly acknowledge that Satan believes in Jesus Christ as well. It is not merely believing in him, but believing in him AND accepting him as your savior that Christian believe is the key to salvation.

When a person earnestly accepts Christ as their savior, Christians believe the Holy Spirit can enter a person’s heart and their character is allowed to grow, transforming over time.

I’m not a Christian myself, but I’m pretty familiar with it. Keep in mind that also that I speak here only of fairly mainline protestant Christians. Other Christians may or may not believe exactly this, and may vary in details. Some very liberal Christians do not even believe Jesus was divine.