Does anybody get the sense we’re all just shittin’ outselves regarding Philosophy here? The more I read and decipher old texts and compare them to newer works, it just seems to me that philosophy is wholely a waste of time when compared to the accumulation of specific indexical knowledge that we find in the natural sciences, to the creation of particulars we find In literature, to the discovery of the networks of Causation we find in history. I’m getting to the point of great frustration with the pure neologization (like the irony Of That?) of our Enterprise. Bahhh!
I think I’ve rediscovered the fact That I horribly came across my sophomore year of college - I hate philosophy. It’s only been the research of quasi scientific folks like Bateson And Deleuze and Girard and others that have kept me going. Yet, as I look around at all the graduate Programs in the world, I can’t stand anything I see. Fuck it, I’m going to go play with animals, genes., and Languages.
“when compared to the accumulation of specific indexical knowledge that we find in the natural sciences, to the creation of particulars we find In literature, to the discovery of the networks of Causation we find in history.”
Ideas drive science, literature and history. Philosophy is the study of ideas. Powerful stuff, but perhaps the wrong place in the assembly line to satisfy you. Philosophy is about making, just like the rest of it. Find a way to “make” the way you would like to.
I know, Dunamis, I know. That’s why as A young freshman several years ago I changed my major from history to philosophy. However, philosophy without a symbiont is pallid, lifeless, and sterile. Actually I kind of disagree with you where you say philosophy is the study of ideas. It’s more like the study of the structure of ideas.
Philosophy and ethics can be all about focusing ideas that have been gained from the natural world.
However, I suppose that stuff like, “are we all really in a dream,” can seem a bit pointless. There’s much more to philosophy than that though. I mentioned ethics before because I think that the study of that is very important to living life.
"I know, Dunamis, I know. That’s why as A young freshman several years ago I changed my major from history to philosophy.
Unfortunately philosophy is being taught in a very poor and narrow way these days.
Actually I kind of disagree with you where you say philosophy is the study of ideas. It’s more like the study of the structure of ideas.
It depends on your kind of philosophy. The way that I study philosophy is to study it’s antecedent (genetic) forms - that is its ancient sources - and then to study its manifest forms, its products, such as the operant metaphors within the contemporary sciences, and their histories. Between these two, in keeping my eye on the parallel unfolding of historic meanings in the plastic arts, literature, architecture, etc. I then imbued turn at last to contemporary philosophy itself, fully armed, so to speak. In order to appreciate the power of philosophy, one must examine the full range of meanings as expressed by culture.
The dilemma faced by anyone looking at formal philosophy is that it is much like looking microscopically at each facet of a diamond, all facets reflecting a slightly different light at slightly different angles. The greatest dilemma is when you realize that all the myriad facets still don’t quite add up to one, that something is missing.
Philosophy is a process, no more and no less perfect than any other human endeavor. Philosophy isn’t so much about answers, (dodges all the brick bats) but about the renewal of the questions in the constant stream of human thought.
At some point, there is a lessening for the need to look at one more facet of the diamond, and a greater need to comprehend and understand. For some, more facet study is the answer. For others, it is in gathering the understanding of all our studies to find what we originally asked; who am I, what am I, and why am I here?
"Philosophy is essentially untimely because it is one of those few things whose fate it remains never to be able to find a direct resonance in their own time, and never to be permitted to find such a resonance. Whenever this seemingly does take place, whenever a philosophy becomes fashion, either there is no philosophy or else philosophy is misrepresented and, and according to some intentions alien to it, misused for the needs of the day.
Philosophy, then is not a kind of knowledge which one could acquire directly, like vocational and technical expertise, and which, like economic and professional knowledge in general, one could apply directly and evaluate according to it’s usefulness in each case.
But what is useless can nevertheless be a power-a power in the rightful sense. That which has no direct resonance (Widerklang) in everdayness can stand in innermost harmony (Einklang) with the authentic happening in the history of a people. It can even be it’s prelude (Vorklang). What is untimely will have it’s own times. This holds for Philosophy. Therefore we cannot determine what the task of philosophy in itself and in general is, and what must accordingly be demanded of philosophy. Every stage and every inception of it’s unfolding carries within it’s own law. One can only say what philosophy cannot be and what it cannot achieve."
I would’nt have transcribed this passage if I did not think it bored it’s own resemblance into the bone of your problem Hermes Trismegistus (so damn esoteric but a good title none the less)
Dunamis is of course correct when he states “it depends on your kind of philosophy.” It all depends on what you wish to recieve back from your delvings. Be a spelunker, or be a surface seeker. It is all relevant. And any way the path that philosophy seems to be taking is necessary. I mean the game must be played. The score must be settled before anyone can go home. The problems must be worked out, and a lot of time must be wasted before any one will agree to a consensus, but then concensus is exactly what philosophy is not, that is if you believe Heidegger.
I thought philosophy was the study of truth, and secondarily the study of ideas, and tertically the structure of ideas. I was going to diagnose you as having a bad case of post-modernism, but you actually like the stuff, don’t you? Well, how can i criticise what i haven’t read. Anyway I had a solution that you should stop working backstage at the theatre of philosophy, and go out and see some plays again, and enjoy them.
(Take a Plato and and call me in the morning –
I’m not a Doctor, but I play one on TV!)
I’m come to the idea that philosphy is best for children K-12. When you go into the natural sciences (which I fully encourage) you will find that the study of philosophy will raise your ability to cry ‘foul’ ten-fold. Most scinetist make their mistakes in the conclusion part drawing to many inferances they haven’t earned. You’ll be able to cry wolf.
So exept for the rare few who just have a mind for it, for most of us philosophy is foundational. The real shiny part is in another disipline- but you’ll be so much better off for your experiance. You’ve probably forgotten just how easy it was to be fooled by a few fancy words before.
If I had a hat, I’d hang it on Einstein’s flippant remark that our ignorance is infinite. Philosophy at its best is the study of how you’re wrong. At its worst it offers ephemeral structures that pass for wisdom and knowledge. I think philosophy can also make racists into non-racists, and rapists into non-rapists. Defining your bullshit philosophy might inform your choices and make your life a little more easy to comprehend and get through. Philosophy can help us to apply a loose “logic” that might be useful in some settings. Philosophy can double as poetry as well as anything. Philosophy gives really smart people like Dunamis something to do with his pre-Cyborg wetwear before the singularity sweeps him up and awards him Tribunal status, but that’s another story. A few things must happen prior to that and I promise you philosophy will play a decreasing role. In the meantime, here’s an idea for a reality show:
We get two fat guys and we parade them around town asking people on the street who they think is fatter, who they’d rather date/sleep with. Then we ask tough guys on the street who they’d think would be easier to beat up, fat guy 1 or fat guy 2. Then we get someone to beat up each fat guy and then at the end we have the fat guys fight each other and engage in a variety of contests that include: loudest fart, able to eat most corndogs, fat-finger dexterity tests – putting tart-n-tinys in a small bottle.
Then we ask them to show us their dicks and take a shit on camera and when they both refuse we offer them five thousand dollars. When they both agree we say, no, only one of you gets the five thousand, but you both have to show your dicks and take a shit and afterward we flip a coin, but the only way to win is to play. So they both do it and one wins. As a consolation the other fat guy gets $2,000 if he walks up and down the street wearing a huge blow-up picture of himself flashing his dick and taking a shit.
I’d like to use my 700th post to say that someone should roll Pat Robertson in flour and pour salt on the wetspot.
Hermes…I DO think philosophy is bullshit on a daily basis. But everything is bullshit except three things. Eating when you’re hungry. Being happy when you escape the jaws of a great white shark. And having an orgasm. That’s it. EVERYTHING else is bullshit. Philosophy is an academic subject. ILP is a mensa field trip minus the ugly. Philosophy is dixie riddle cup minus the kool aid. Philosophy was born when the first man said “holy shit I’m stupid.” And then he said it over and over in more complicated ways and he now goes by the name of Dunamis. When he takes the occassional break from his “Gosh I’m stupid” mantra, he then has time to eat, cum and escape the shark.
I do not eat Tart N Tiny’s. I invent them. I am not a fat guy. I am a beam of light from the future.
You invent the stuff hanging on the counter rack at the convenience store? Really? Beam from the future, huh? Might be fun, but I get a sense of foreboding… Maybe it’ll sound better on Monday.
I disagree with some of what you guys say here. Okay, so you might think philosophy is bullshit. You might think it’s a waste of time. You might think it’s meaningless. And you might hate it. And all of what I said might be true. But you know what? Even if it is bullshit, I still like it. Even if it is a waste of time, I still like it. Even if it is meaningless, I still like it. Even if everything philosophic is false, I still like it. I like shitting myself.
I think the problem comes when you try to look for meaning in philosophy (isn’t that an oxymoron?), and when you try to look for a point in philosophy. What’s the point of studying astronomy, if not for the sake of satiating your curiosity of the heavens? What meaning is there in science, that there is not in philosophy? What is the point of history, if not for the sake of…um…looking smart?
I personally don’t “study” philosophy so that I can discover the truth or find personal meaning. The meaning in philosophy is philosophy. I love it, IT, for what it is, not what it produces. It’s not a life guide book which I follow in order to find my place in the universe, like a Bible. Nor do I don’t expect it to point me in a particular direction like a compass. But if it is a compass, it’s something that spins, something that has North and South, and it’s something that I like, that I enjoy keeping in my pocket. I like the compass for what it is, not for what it does.
So why not shit ourselves? Everything in the universe, I don’t find to have any meaning. I no longer look at things in the universe as having meaning or a function or an aim or a point. But I’m not a nihilist. It’s just that meaning is a dead term to me. The word why, even though I just used it, is also a dead term. I don’t think like that. Philosophy is one of the few things that I enjoy. So if I’m shitting myself, well, that’s some good shit.
The sugar overload warps your mind.