I took a Woman’s History class a while back, and we got into a discussion about the evils of imperialism. I brought up that sometimes imperialism can be good, like in the case of India and the curious burial practices they once had. There was a time when it was culturally acceptable for the wife of a dead husband to be burned alive with the body. The British were appalled by this practice and put and end to it. When I brought up this point, some people still claimed that it’s not our place to judge other cultures. Is there any justification for burning innocent women alive? Seriously.
Sometimes other cultures are insane. It’s a simple fact.
You mean like in the U.S., during the witch trials?
See, that’s the problem with educating people about the actual history of oppressed groups (versus whitewashed versions): it gets them all up in arms and messes up the Natural Order of Things.
Would you like to see a list of what women are still subjected to in these modern, ‘enlightened’ times? I would post it, but I’m concerned that children somewhere may be viewing this. It’s not fare for the tender-hearted.
I, being a female who would’ve likely been subjected to burning with my bad attitude, am saved only by having been born in this place, this time. My dear comrade Satyr has reminded me of this in many ways, so that I (and other such rebellious, presumptuous wenches) will not forget our true status, which includes being subjected to any sort of torture or agony that the (superior) male wishes. Although in a rational world he has a reason to keep me alive and reasonably healthy at least long enough to bear and tend to the fruit of his seed. Although, please note that it’s also his choice as to how that seed gets in there in the first place.
So the system you described as abhorrent is quite logical, in that respect. If the husband dies, what use is his wife anymore? And when she gets too old to produce babies, what use? Burn her! It’s cheaper, perhaps better for the environment, although maybe not a delicate enough carbon footprint. Considering she’s a lady and all…
I find it ironic that women’s studies classes will routinely defend the oppression of women by different cultures out of solidarity because they too were oppressed. Talk about missing the point!
Not even close. Women choose to do that and it doesn’t even hurt.
Reeeally. Are you being sarcastic? If not, do you really expect me to believe you’re going to stick to your word when your time comes? When you hit menopause, are you really going to offer yourself up for sacrifice because you’ve got no more social use?
Perhaps they are, but men partake in those modern practices too: so perhaps it’s more ‘the search for Ambrosia / the quest for eternal youth’ than anything else!
I ADORE make-up, and frown on your implication of it, in this context, Smears (picture lots of fist-shaking in your direction)
Hey I didn’t say I thought it was a bad thing. I love tits and smooth skin and a fresh face as much as the next guy. And tiny feet can be pretty sexy too.
Sometimes it takes another perspective to show us when we’re wrong. ‘The White Man’s Burden’ is obviously fallacious, but just because we’re not perect doesn’t mean we can’t do some good.
A long-running thesis of mine is that we need to seek complementation in our ideologies and our upbringing. Campbell believed that the representative myth of the west was the initial quest for the grail where the knights decided it would be a shame to start such a venture by traveling paths already traversed by others so they went out and carved their own way through the forest. That is the “western spirit” if we are going to allow ourselves to grossly generalize to the point where we can make such pronouncements. In cultures where tradition is so heavily emphasized that there is no chance for individual development, this ideology is a much needed cure. But left rampant (as it has become in the west) this ideology becomes destructive because all we are left with is a bunch of isolated individuals vaguely bumping into each other but never really touching. Clearly some of the more communitarian myths need to be emphasized here.
So it becomes about give-and-take. Yeah, it was good that India took a bit of the English belief that women are autonomous entities and oughtn’t be burnt with their husbands. But a lot of the philosophical and cultural elements that the west has borrowed from India (even if it was through the vector of exotification) have greatly benefited the West. Give-and-take, the progressal accumulation of wisdom, as opposed to isolationism and desperately trying to make the world static.
How noble, the quest for the eternal youth. You’d like to think it was so. I’ve heard that lipstick was applied red to suggest the virgina orfice. So pucker up baby, because make-up is more about seduction/deception than anything else.
I know that women apply make-up to hide flaws, or enhance particular features - I just need eyeshadow/eye-liner, and some lip tint, and I’m ready to rock-and-roll
Justification is in the eye of the community. If you did not know this was happening it would not affect you. Most cultures are streaked with insanity. If people choose to reside in a community where such horrible things are done, then is that not their own choice and responsibility? The only time I could justify intruding upon this would be if there were walls that kept people from escaping. If there are no walls then they can leave. The only walls in place are the ones in their minds. You can help someone who thinks they deserve such treatment. But, you can’t help a whole community that believes such. You can only conquer and slowly change their ways. This involves more hideous deeds. It becomes a viscous circle of violence.
That’s a good question, and I think it needs much thought. I certainly isn’t clear cut. You gotta consider things like brainwashing and guilty feelings (about abandoning your community). And then there’s financial barriers and other wherewithals that might make it difficult for people to just get up and go. Like you said, there may be no physical walls, but there are certainly mental walls, and I don’t know how much precedence we ought to give those walls in our considerations to intervene.
It’s too bad ‘intruding’ is so associated with aggression. This is the head-in-the-sand downside of cultural relativism. I just saw a documentary called “War Photographer” about photographer James Nachtwey who goes to conflict zones (war, famine, etc.) in order to give us images from the heart of such conflicts. According to a fellow cameraman, “He is always right in the middle of it. He is always part of it. He always has been and he always will be.” If his photographs aren’t merely entertainment, then what are they? Isn’t to say that ‘walls’ are all in people’s minds and they can just leave if they really want to, to ironically build just such an illusory wall of our own? That almost sounds to me like we are the ones walling others in. The walls that keep people trapped in their suffering are quite solid and real to them. Not to mention many societies are not nearly as ‘upwardly mobile’ as our own. It’s certainly questionable whether it would be good for them to be. Many people who try to physically escape their suffering simply end up living in misery somewhere within the nearest megalopolis, such as Lagos or Calcutta. In that sense their walls are just as real as the Berlin wall.
To remain in a place where a person is in physiscal danger, but they still remain there: is probably down to cultural pressure, and the traditions that go along with it - a lot of traditions seem like madness, and also reek of compulsiveness…
Doesn’t the UN, Amnesty International, and the Geneva Convention: fight to outlaw inhumane traditions around the world - it’s handled in such a way that the tactics are non-aggressive, and many life-threatening traditions are being eradicated by these tactful methods employed.
These organisations have been preventing/ceasing the practices of: tribal scarring, teenage circumcision, enforced body mutilation, pre-pubescent brides/mothers: amongst many others…
