Did Socrates commit suicide?

Socrates did not directly kill himself but he ‘chose’ not to abandon the philosophical path which would lead to his death, the death that he chose so why is it not considered as suicide?

When a man who is dependent on a medicine to maintain his well being deprives himself of this drug we can consider this as an act of Suicide, the man is freely choosing ‘not’ to take the drug in order to kill himself. Why then is the case of Socrates any different? Socrates i believe could have avoided his death penalty if only he had accustomed himself into complying with the conditions that were proposed to him, to abandon the ‘questions’ and the spread of atheism but he chose not to.

Rami.

You know, I’ve wondered at the Greeks’ having someone drink poison to enforce capital punishment. If the condemned resisted, what would the State do – hold his nose and force it down? Maybe be forced to find a bloodier method of execution? But Philosophy told Socrates that he should not abandon his State (although he could have escaped) (Crito), so he was obedient to death to his state as he would in war.

The second thing that bothers me about his death, besides persons saying he committed scuicide (no self-pity in this death), is saying he was an atheist. Wasn’t one of the last things he did to write hymns about Aesop and Apollo? Didn’t Socrates follow a daimon he thought sent by God?

Finally, some interpretations of Socrates’ last words bother me. The best explanation I have heard is that Plato (missing at Socrates’ death, yet writing the story) was sick at the time, and the cock for the god of medicine was to pay for his treatment.

So died a man, “of all the men then living we had ever met, the noblest and the wisest and the most just.” (Phaedo)

mrn

If he considered his philosophical path to be his true self then he did not comit suicide.

I see it as he had the choice to:
A, stop his philosophical life right then
B, make one more dramatic philosophical statement

In that case, it makes more sense to have one more living act leading to physical death of the body then to have a dead life yet continue to breath and eat, yet be dead in the sense that his life’s purpose was stopped. So, he chose perfectly well to actually live a little longer over carrying on a charade of life for a few more years.

He most certainly, by Plato’s report of events, committed suicide. I believe he was given the opportunity for exile, for payment of a fine and for escape. He didn’t approve of any of those paths, so he chose the path of death knowingly and willingly.

Dunamis

How do we know that he was not an invention of Plato? Plato talked about Atlantis and that makes me wonder if he invented characters to discuss topics in a safe sort of way for him. Also, the republic had a fictional quality about it as well.

What are your (anyone) thoughts about this?

There are multiple historic records of him. His existence is about as sure a historic fact as we have, as far as historic facts go.

Dunamis

famous last words:

“we owe a cock to asclepius, remember to pay the debt”

socrates thought that life was a disease…

-Imp

Hello F(r)iends,

I always found this incredibly amusing even though it is, as my friend Avicenna says, somewhat blasphemous to his followers…

-Thirst

Steve Martin did it best in a skit on the Death of Socrates. “…What is life, Socrates? What its truth, Socrates? Why didn’t anyone ever tell me, ‘Socrates, hemlock is poisonous’?”!

Dunamis, could we say he was trapped by his principles? I’m sure he would have preferred to have been found not-guilty – on his own principles, after converting everyone.

mrn

So we can accept that Socrates was a martyr?

So you are saying that a Martyr in the middle east is not really comitting suicide since it is his last chance to do what he believes to be ‘right’?

Surely a man of great virtue will stand in his philosophy until death! No different from Jesus no?

A

no different from jesus and no different from political martyr’s either.

So we would all agree that Suicide cannot be labelled as ‘immoral’?

Rami.

I don’t know Rami. It is all about intention. Making a choice knowing that there is no other choice one can make without selling out and choosing death are two very different things.

A

M.R.N.,

Dunamis, could we say he was trapped by his principles? I’m sure he would have preferred to have been found not-guilty – on his own principles, after converting everyone.

Socrates would have preferred to say “freed” by his principles, for he did not fear death. But you bring up a very good point in that practitioners of critical reason often make it their passionate goal to convert all possible “language users”, as a matter of principle, often no less so than those who practice “religion”.

Rami,

I do not know what it would mean to call him a martyr, although several would and have called him such.

Dunamis

it means Suicide is neither for the selfish nor for the heroic.

Though Socrates chose his fate of death I do not consider his downfall a suicide because to commit suicide is to take the dagger into your own hands and slit your throat, figuratively speaking.

anything can be labeled as immoral…

then again, there can be no moral lemmings…

-Imp

If he is not permitted to practice his/her religion any other way (not usually true) then yes. Or, if s/he does not really believe that death is significant then thay are not commiting the same suicide that is morally reprehensible in other cultures.

A suicide bomber however, is going against Islam by hurting/killing non-combatants and is therefore commiting a religious crime on top of a civil crime and, of course a philosophical crime since the person has (I think in most cases) not weighed the issues for him/herself.

But then we could start in on the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr…