Do abstract things exist mind-independently?

[futureone]

There is no proof trees have minds.

[Ichthus77 (Ichthus77 (formerly She™))]

@Ichthus77

Nothing is independent of mind. And how weird we talk about abstract objects when we’re basically just generalizing a statistic of a sample (example) into the parameter of a population (category). No statistic, no sample, no parameter, without a population…? Then you always have all of the above, at least in essence (from your limited perspective) — at at least one time t. UNLESS, of course, the category is empty at every time t.

What sort of advance counts as abstract, anyway??? What if it’s an abstraction TO reality, & not in divergence from it? What if concretion is just a show/demonstration/revelation of that reality…but one that would literally take forever to get the whole of it (and without which…it wouldn’t BE the reality it demonstrates)?

What’s the difference between a mutually/triunally productive circuit/cycle… and a circular argument? (punchlines only)

[Arzin28 (Arzin)]

You are saying mathematics objects and statements are mind dependant, making them a shared imagination?

[Ichthus77 (Ichthus77 (formerly She™))]

I don’t think concrete things exist mind-independently, and that minds are as concrete as it gets. Abstractions aren’t real unless embedded in the structure of things, including how we creatively reframe things to be more in alignment with the eternal.

Boom. Final answer.

[MagsJ (Surya Loka.. triumvirate)]

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@Arzin28

The question is: do they actually exist mind-independently?

Abstractions? No!
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@Arzin28

If yes, how do mathematical objects exist mind-independently, considering it is very likely no Platonic realm exists?

Form is form, regardless of the ability for eyes to see it, so that with form exists.

[Atla]

@Arzin28

Abstract things are things which cannot be seen or touched, and don’t take up space. We can talk about them, think about them and can represent them. For example, abstract things like mathematics, logic, and morality.

Most people will agree that mathematical objects, which are abstract, exist mind-independently, or that their existence doesn’t depend on our minds. The question is: do they actually exist mind-independently? If yes, how do mathematical objects exist mind-independently, considering it is very likely no Platonic realm exists?

Of course abstract things don’t exist mind-independently. For humanity to exist, the known universe must have very stable features (stable “constants”, stable “laws” etc.), and so people will make the same abstractions about the world. They will derive the same mathemathics, the same logic etc. But abstract thinking is simply a type of thinking.

[formeruser12]

Abstraction is just trying to make sense of relativity, which does exist independently. All things are relative to each other in at least one way or another, those are the rules.

Abstraction is how we deal with them and make them make sense..

[MrAuthoritarian]

Abstractions exist purely through the human mind alone. There are physical forms or physics that exist separately from the human mind but even then our understanding of them is dependent on primitive crude mental abstractions.

I sometimes wonder if our mental abstractions are completely dependent upon our living natural biology or evolution.

The limited dimensions of the human mind seem to limit our overall perception of the world and cosmos all around us. It does seem to be a mental physical handicap of ours and yet in some instances cynics would call it a blessing in disguise. Depends on the perspective.