Do You believe in miracles.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

Do You believe in miracles, and if so why? Have You, or someone near to You, whose claims are believed by virtue of their character experienced a miracle?
Do miraculous events ever touched You which give You pause and suspend for a while your hold on reality?

St. Bernadette of Nevers lays in her coffin, as pure and untouched, appearing as if she was merely in a deep sleep. Asked whether she has ever been preserved, the answer was a clear and unmistaken - no.

I personally believe in them not only because of the myraid of literature describing the lives of the Saints but because of the numbers involved. Madame Blavatsky describes the first great wheel of the universe as lasting one hundred trillion and forty billion years. So much time, so few affordable thoughts. Is anything conceivable in this amount of time. Think of it, less then a hundred years ago, people were traveling by horses and buggies, no telephone, electricity, no travel by air. Such short time, one hundred years, and it has been called the century of miracles.

What more, in trillions of years? Now, do you, believe?

Can you describe an instant in your life that what happened was a miracle or at least for that brief time, you thought of it in that way?

Or, negatively, can You in all certainty declare that miracles are impossible?

[Mr_Reasonable]

I think, “miracle” is just a term that describes a phenomenon. Other terms could describe it, some better, some worse. If you get shot in the head and survive and heal up and are totally back to normal, some people would call it a miracle. But, the doctor who saved you might describe it in a totally different way by referencing parts of your anatomy and explaining how the bullet went here instead of there and how this healed really well and so on. Another person might say, “that’s just some crazy shit that doesn’t make any sense”. The point is, shit just happens. It doesn’t really matter the why or the how or the way in which we describe it. It doesn’t. No amount of number crunching or language clarifying or philosophizing will really keep things from being the way that they are. So who really cares if there are miracles or not? It doesn’t make any difference either way.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

St. Bernadette of Nevers lays in her coffin, as pure and untouched, appearing as if she was merely in a deep sleep. Asked whether she has ever been preserved, the answer was a clear and unmistaken - no.

catholicpilgrims.com/lourdes … e_body.htm

How exciting … for me at least.

Jerkey … have you been to Nevers?

I have been there several times … the first visit was full of mystery … I was in Belgium visiting Flanders Fields … looking for the tombstone of one of my uncles who died during the war. I found it … a long story. I was travelling with a friend … in a car rental. At the time I didn’t know that Interpol was looking for me and the car I had rented … another long story.

My friend wanted to visit the home town of Ste Theresa of Lisieux … I didn’t know any saints before this trip … yet I met a handful during the trip that have significantly influenced my life ever since (Circa 1995).

My friend didn’t know where the tomb of Ste Theresa was located … we stopped in to ask a priest at a small parish in Belgium. He didn’t know either so he pulled out some old books … both my friend and this priest read some of the books he pulled out. In the end, we were informed that Ste Theresa’s tomb was in Nevers France … a long drive from Brugges Belgium.

We headed for Nevers … on arriving I decided to pull into what looked like a church to ask for directions(I speak a little French) … the lady I asked didn’t know but she brought me over to a glass casket … yup Ste Bernadette. Never did find Ste Theresa on this trip … would be a few years before I arrived in Lisieux.

In the beginning I too believed the remains of Ste Bernadette were “untouched” … I have learned since they have used wax on the exposed parts of her body.

About miracles … I’m inclined to agree with St Augustine … what we call miracles are simply acts of nature … a nature we do not yet understand.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

I too have been to Navers, Tom. And perhaps we talked to the same lady. Nevers meant little to me until I remembered the film classic, Hiroshima, Mon Amour, which was referenced as the heroinne’s birth place.

The wax did not preserve the exposed parts, it only covered it. As far as what I was able to gather by the difference was, that only a preservation can keep a face as fresh and life-like. This was a nun I believe.
I also went to another famous shrine, where the Holy Mother appeared, to a young girl, where many miraculous cures have been attested to. I bathed in it, and since then, I believe, my life was saved.

[zinnat]

I have a belief, or rather know that extraordinary and rare things can happen because i have experienced those. But, there is no such thing as miracle, unless we define it as merely beyond out understanding abilities. Everything has a reason and explanation behind that. That is different thing that we yet are not aware of all those.

So, technically speaking, neither miracles take place nor i believe in those. But yes, some extraordinary, rare and out of the blue things can happen.

with love,
sanjay

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

Can You, San Jay think of anything that has no explanation behind it?

[esperanza1]

@jerkey

Do You believe in miracles, and if so why? Have You, or someone near to You, whose claims are believed by virtue of their character experienced a miracle?
Do miraculous events ever touched You which give You pause and suspend for a while your hold on reality?

St. Bernadette of Nevers lays in her coffin, as pure and untouched, appearing as if she was merely in a deep sleep. Asked whether she has ever been preserved, the answer was a clear and unmistaken - no.

I personally believe in them not only because of the myraid of literature describing the lives of the Saints but because of the numbers involved. Madame Blavatsky describes the first great wheel of the universe as lasting one hundred trillion and forty billion years. So much time, so few affordable thoughts. Is anything conceivable in this amount of time. Think of it, less then a hundred years ago, people were traveling by horses and buggies, no telephone, electricity, no travel by air. Such short time, one hundred years, and it has been called the century of miracles.

What more, in trillions of years? Now, do you, believe?

Can you describe an instant in your life that what happened was a miracle or at least for that brief time, you thought of it in that way?

Or, negatively, can You in all certainty declare that miracles are impossible?

Yes, I do believe in miracles.

All of creation is a miracle. There are everyday miracles, and than there are those that are more personal.
A miracle has so much more meaning, when you add God to the equation, I believe.

I have heard about the incorruptible saints. The saints would be corruptible, if not for God, and his love towards us.

My conclusion is this, that miracles are meaningless without God.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

@jerkey

I too have been to Navers, Tom. And perhaps we talked to the same lady. Nevers meant little to me until I remembered the film classic, Hiroshima, Mon Amour, which was referenced as the heroinne’s birth place.

Jerkey … I don’t understand the connection between Nevers and the movie … will you share? What circumstances brought you to Nevers?

@jerkey

The wax did not preserve the exposed parts, it only covered it. As far as what I was able to gather by the difference was, that only a preservation can keep a face as fresh and life-like. This was a nun I believe.

You don’t know the story of Bernadette Soubirous?

@jerkey

I also went to another famous shrine, where the Holy Mother appeared, to a young girl, where many miraculous cures have been attested to. I bathed in it, and since then, I believe, my life was saved.

Which shrine? Where?

Please forgive so many questions … they’re founded on excitement … not curiosity.

[esperanza1]

@jerkey

Do You believe in miracles, and if so why? Have You, or someone near to You, whose claims are believed by virtue of their character experienced a miracle?
Do miraculous events ever touched You which give You pause and suspend for a while your hold on reality?

St. Bernadette of Nevers lays in her coffin, as pure and untouched, appearing as if she was merely in a deep sleep. Asked whether she has ever been preserved, the answer was a clear and unmistaken - no.

I personally believe in them not only because of the myraid of literature describing the lives of the Saints but because of the numbers involved. Madame Blavatsky describes the first great wheel of the universe as lasting one hundred trillion and forty billion years. So much time, so few affordable thoughts. Is anything conceivable in this amount of time. Think of it, less then a hundred years ago, people were traveling by horses and buggies, no telephone, electricity, no travel by air. Such short time, one hundred years, and it has been called the century of miracles.

What more, in trillions of years? Now, do you, believe?

Can you describe an instant in your life that what happened was a miracle or at least for that brief time, you thought of it in that way?

Or, negatively, can You in all certainty declare that miracles are impossible?

Yes, I believe in miracles.

All of creation, is a miracle. There are everyday miracles, and than there are those that are more personal.
When you add God to the equation, miracles have more meaning, and help increase faith.

The saint would be corruptible if not for an incorruptible God.

My conclusion is this that miracles would be meaningless without God.

[zinnat]

@jerkey

Can You, San Jay think of anything that has no explanation behind it?

No, i cannot think of, but many people use to define miracles as such.

Pardon my english, but I think that is the difference between magic and miracles. In magic, people know that there is some reason(trick) behind magic though they personally are not aware of that, only the performing magician knows. But, they do NOT feel the same in the case of miracles.

with love,
sanjay

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

@pilgrim_tom

@jerkey

I too have been to Navers, Tom. And perhaps we talked to the same lady. Nevers meant little to me until I remembered the film classic, Hiroshima, Mon Amour, which was referenced as the heroinne’s birth place.

Jerkey … I don’t understand the connection between Nevers and the movie … will you share? What circumstances brought you to Nevers?

I saw the movie early on and it has to do with the connection of both, a personal madness about war, and the general madness of the nicking of Hiroshima

@jerkey

The wax did not preserve the exposed parts, it only covered it. As far as what I was
able to gather by the difference was, that only a
preservation can keep a face as fresh and life-like. This was a nun I believe.

You don’t know the story of Bernadette
I am somewhat familiar with her.
[
quote=“jerkey”]I also went to another famous shrine, where the Holy Mother appeared, to a young girl, where many miraculous cures have been attested to. I
bathed in it, and since then, I believe, my life was saved.

Which shrine? Where?

It was Lourdes. I think the answer there came to me as far as sin is considered, and I started to know about the real meaning of sin and forgiveness. Back then I had vague notions of determinism, freedom, that they are not on the same level, and that self forgiveness has everything to do with intention, and knowledge of consequences to actions, and how strongly they resemble karmic effects of Hindo philosophy.

Please forgive so many questions … they’re founded
on excitement … not curiosity.
[/quote]
You are forgiven, but You should be asking this of my highest powers, because I have no idea what it is I should forgive You for.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

@zinnat

@jerkey

Can You, San Jay think of anything that has no explanation behind it?

No, i cannot think of, but many people use to define m
iracles as such.

Pardon my english, but I think that is the difference
between magic and miracles. In magic, people know
that there is some reason(trick) behind magic though they personally are not aware of that, only the performing magician knows. But, they do feel the
same in the case of miracles.

with love,
sanjay

Sanjay,

This is a neat contrivance that You should seek difference!

At some shallow levels, there is a vast departure of magic from miracles. The Magi bringing gifts to baby Christ were obviously in the throes of the mystery surrounding the position of the Star guiding them. The Medieval Alchemists used the term magic, stemming from this incidence.

Hence, Magic has come down from miraculous roots. Thereafter the cheap tricks of sleight of hand, have indeed veered away from those astounding events.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

Jerkey … thanks for sharing … most people seem reluctant to share personal experiences on this forum … IMHO … leaving many of the discussions detached from reality … discussions in a vacuum?

I want to stay on topic … your OP … yet perhaps a few more words that may help sympathetic readers understand my excitement with your OP.

I too have visited Lourdes … several times … my first long walk … 1,400 kilometres over a period of 10 weeks … started in Lourdes. Present day Lourdes is the result of the experiences of Bernadette Soubirous in 1858 … she is the young peasant girl who claimed to experience visits from the Virgin Mary.

Back to your OP …

The word ‘miracle’ has Christian religious connotations … the use of the word naturally elicits resistance from the non-Christian community.

The response may be different if you employed non-religious language. For example … Do you believe stuff happens that can’t be explained by science … yet?

About Ste Bernadette’s mummified body … naturally mummified bodies … both human and animal … have been discovered and there are likely more to come.

Miracles? … no.

Natural? … yes.

Explainable? … in some cases.

I read this paragraph recently …

[b]

Ordinary ground is holy. There is more than enough mystery, secret, marvel and miracle ablaze in ordinary reality. Unfortunately, most of the time we don’t see this because we stand before it trying to claim, name, number, psych out and render familiar . . .when our true task is, instead, to ponder and to wonder. This is an irreverence that fatigues the soul.

[/b]

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

Hey Tom, I am equally excited to share in beliefs which are positively inspiring, rather then the usual run of the mill hopeless views of people overcome in depressing innuendos relating the hopelessness of the creation of human life.

The facts non believers point out, which point to a religion of fallacious reasoning, only have to point to
the merciless destruction of young souls, the massacre of children, the horrendous murder of the victims of ware fare, etc.

To that we can only pray, that death is only of the body, through which the soul sails through to innumerable ports of call, an eternal journey, where even each hair on your head is counted. Possible?
Fairy tale?

The same eternity, of which the Helena Blavatsky merely gave a very slight segment , where the astounding number of three trillion and forth billion years elapsing is only a very tiny fraction of eternity, impresses the scope and largesse of it, where truly, anything regarding the soul becomes possible.

We are humbled, or at least should be, and any miracle arises out of necessity in the service of an illumination to those in need of it.

When such an attitude becomes absolutely necessary, and the energy becomes an overwhelming desire, not for one’s self, then it is an absolute certainty, that Heaven will answer.

It has to go through the heart, not the mind, but the mind in the absolutely faithful sense of desire, will not be left exempt, but will automatically fill in any possible doubt. However doubt usually self defeats,
giving rise to the circular-tautological semblance of the kind of acceptance which has been associated with quiery on that level.

No less then another Saint, Anselm, has been ridiculed by posterity for this very same reason.

It’s worth while to mention, that Saint Anselm has been re-examined, concluding different sets of results regarding the circularity of his arguments.

Later, Tom

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

Jerkey … we left our footprints in Nevers and Lourdes … what isn’t coincidence?

The human family seems to benefit from both high intellect and simplicity …reflected in the lives of Saint Anselm and Ste Bernadette … a simple peasant girl … who left the human family a timeless recommendation … “Love without limit”.

Helen Blavatsky never crossed my path … Krishnamurti … on the fringe. I respect Krishnamurti’s bluntness … “It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society”

Perhaps when this period of “well adjusted” expires a very discontented society will move in a different direction.

I believe some people experience a type of “desire” that springs from some unknown source. This particular type of desire may wax and wane for a lifetime … yet never seems to be fully satisfied. Why do we have to ‘name’ the source?

[Ultimate_Philosophy (Ultimate Philosophy 1001)]

Do I believe in miracles?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKaXY4IdZ40[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWpq4pRxflU[/youtube]

[Uccisore]

Miracles are like Nigerian princes. I’m sure they’re real, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept every one I hear about on the internet.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

No.

[Mr_Reasonable]

@Uccisore

Miracles are like Nigerian princes. I’m sure they’re real, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept every one I hear about on the internet.

You’re sure that Nigerian princes are real?

[Ierrellus]

Given the anthropic principle, it is a miracle that humans exist at all. Why should the evolution of chemicals render us? Yet it did. And here we are living the miracle of existence.