The number 4 will never be able to hit you over the head, yet everyone who exists believes in it.
Dimensions outside space and time folks.
You are a good laugh but when it comes to reality, all you are is fantasy.
That’s not a refutation.
There’s nothing to refute. You say we can all magically generate our own utopias where every dream we want to have comes true. Yet you have no evidence or explanation of how this is ever done.
If I say, in the deepest, dankest regions of the galaxy, lives an old troll who eats his mom’s spaghetti, there is nothing to refute.
Trixie, consciousness is faster than light.
You have not seem what I have, so you don’t know what can be done … I don’t fault you for that.
The number 4 exists on the number line not in physical reality which is why so many believe in it
You missed the point.
Not one single number can be found, so no number line. A number line can’t hit you over the head either. But we all still believe in it, this thing we cannot find is eminently functional.
Numbers are not real so obviously you would not expect to find them anywhere in physical reality
Those words you typed are not real either but they still exist as abstractions just like numbers do
Stuff like numbers aren’t real, and my post isn’t real doesn’t pass bare minimum of philosophic orientation.
Devise a repeatable and falsifiable experiment to prove the existence of at least one Platonic form.
I am not asking for hand wavey terms, shaky logic and implicit assumptions - give me something as undeniably legitimate as proving the existence of a tree.
Who claimed this guy had a high IQ btw?
Umm… every experiment that’s repeatable that has ever used math!!!
You’re joking right?
Everyone knows you can’t find the number one anywhere or the number 4, but we all know they exist. We know since we can’t find them anywhere, that they exist outside space time, which is what a platonic form is
But you come on like some kind of jackass, and say “my post isn’t real”. And ecmandu is a retarded for thinking it is… you’re disgusting
You know, I actually take time out of my day to reply to you, and you give everyone the middle finger by saying you and your entire posting history isn’t real…
Bottom of the scum heap
As you just implied about math not having physical existence, math isn’t the experiment (such as I asked for), it’s the tool used to quantify the physical data that is gathered from experiment.
Using math isn’t the proof of the findings of experiment, nor are any “platonic forms”. You see a tree, it’s real. You see how it behaves under different real conditions in a repeatable way - everything’s physical, you can prove it and make your proof more comprehensible and predictive using math.
I’m asking you to devise an experiment to show that Platonic forms are as undoubtedly real as something like a tree.
As you show that you understand, you can’t - Platonic forms are “outside space time” - thus they not undoubtedly real: they can be reasonably doubted. You can be reasonably doubted.
The utility of math cannot be doubted, but math itself can be: just as you admit that “you can’t find the number one anywhere or the number 4”. Math is more of a description of a way of mentally compartmentalising reality. That isn’t a proof of it, it’s more of a proof that we can think in a certain way that we normally explain as “using math”. You can prove the reality that people also think in a certain way that can be similarly explained as “conceiving of Platonic forms”. You can do the same for people thinking in a certain way that can be explained as “believing in Santa”. Why should we doubt Santa any less than Platonic forms?
The idea of Santa and even belief in him has a real effect on the behaviour of real things/people. We accept that this doesn’t make Santa real.
The idea of math and even the belief in it has a real effect on the behaviour of real things/people. We accept that math is real.
What’s the difference?
The belief in Santa cannot be used to create real possibilities that were previously not possible. Math can (and consistently has).
What does the belief in Platonic forms do to create real possibilities that were not previously possible?
Are they gonna make “hyper-dimensional mirrors” or a “consensual reality”? No. If anything, math could - but back to my request: devise an experiment to cause such things to be real. Devise an experiment to show Platonic forms are real.
You can’t.
You can be reasonably doubted.
I am genuinely interested in where this IQ rumour about you came from. A person with a high IQ would have surmised that what I said was not sufficient to be interpreted as calling you retarded. Nothing you have ever said that I have read has been sufficient to show you have a high IQ. Speaking as someone with a legitimately proven high IQ, this warrants genuine my intrigue and not your disgust.
Utility is the only verification that exists. You said that the utility of math cannot be denied, but math can be.
That I can prove that you are engaged in a useless argument alone shows that things with no utility can exist.
Does the uselessness to me of a grain of sand mean it cannot be verified to exist? Utility is the only verification that exists?! Clearly there are innumerable counter examples to this ridiculously sweeping statement, of which the above are just two.
Regardless, if you had read my argument in full (and had a sufficient IQ to discern it) you would have discovered that I qualified how utility can both be and not be proof of existence.
Platonic forms are Santa.
Using a grain of sand as an attempt at an argument against me, just made each grain of sand, utile.
Numbers are not Santa Claus
What even is this?
Using a grain of sand IN an attempt at an argument against you is not using a grain of sand AS an attempt at an argument against you.
Yeah this IQ rumour is truly an inversion of the truth.
Yeah, that was my point, not yours.
You are one useless thinker dude.
Hmm…
I think this whole board is turning into trolls.
Mods included.
Are you folks getting paid by counter intelligence services? Seriously
Philosophers from 3000 years ago were smarter than you are now.
I find that sad.
I don’t know why people are beating on you when you’re not saying much more than what Plato said.
Or this guy…