End of the World

A recent t.v. program showed a mile long patch of plastic debris floating in the Pacific Ocean.
There are over 7 billion people living on a globe that has limited natural resources.
“This is the way the world ends==
Not with a bang, but a whimper.” --T. S. Eliot
How do you think the world will end? Or d0 you see the concern as just some religious or political propaganda?
Will science save us from ourselves? Can religion?

Please forgive my paraphrase of Eliot if it’s inaccurate. I can’t seem to locate my copy of “The Waste Land”.
This OP is probably due to the fact that I am living out my last years and am concerned about the future welfare of my children and grandchildren.


I think science and God will be shown to manifest a United Field , fairly soon.

This would need to happen empirically first for science to ally.


Ierrellus … what a delightful post … warms the heart of a fellow old man with children and grandchildren. I say this despite the fact my children and grandchildren either hate me or don’t know me. :slight_smile:

You remind me of Jordan Petersen … you express some of the veiled “Truth” in the Bible myths.

In this case you remind me of the myth of Moses … who so badly wanted to see the “promised land” … yet … never did … according to the myth. :slight_smile:

While we are undeniably in the winter of our lives we may yet ‘see’ the warmth and beauty of the best ‘spring’ ever.

That is my hope also.
Thanks, James, Wendy and Tom.
I am no Moses. Are we in the last daze of Earth? Pun intended.

Fire and Ice
Some say the world will end in fire.
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire;
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
early Robert Frost

I would describe the ice as neglect, not hate.
The way the world ends, if the current daze is any indication, is that the haves will be blinded by gluttony and waste while the have nots will die in wars of envy. It will take a union of religious and scientific thought to dissuade the world’s masses from their favorite forms of suicide.

I plead guilty again :slight_smile: … of the crime of not articulating my thoughts very well.

The character Moses symbolizes all aging people … perhaps representing a biological fact … a biological pattern.

As brother death’s visit approaches, seems logical and rational that we … us older folk … would yearn to see the “promised land” before our long sleep.

Of course, the “promised land” is not the same for all old people … for some it’s unfulfilled ambitions, for some it’s irreconcilable relationships, for some it’s the hope of a better life/world for their children and grandchildren and so on.

The Moses analogy would be appropriate for me if I could foresee a promised land. All I have in that respect is lament for the foibles of this current world. I do have hopes that the future of the world of thought will move into those lines of scientific and religious compatibility as Meno suggests. A spiritual awakening in the world is much to be desired–an awakening that is really concerned with the destiny of humans on this given planet,

The ecological catastrophe is merely one of some more options for the end of humans and many other living creatures.
Other options are, for instance, military catastrophes, technical/scientifical research catastrophes, natural catastrophes.

But all these catastophes will not mean the “end of the world” and not mean the end of this planet either; but they will just mean huge catastrophes for humans and many other living creatures.

The tricky thing here is that it all depends on how you construe the relationship between “I” and “the world”. From either a religious or nonreligious point of view.

If you don’t believe in God then “the world” ends for “I” at the grave. Unless of course it doesn’t. But who among us [here and now] can pin this down?

If you do believe in God then even if “the world” [planet earth] is swallowed up by the Sun billions of years from now, “I” [as soul] is blissfully ensconced in another “world”: the Kingdom of God.

Either that writhing in agony in Hell.

Unless of course Purgatory is also an actual destination.

This OP has the potential to evolve into an astronomical discovery.

  1. Espousing a belief in God is peripheral … our biology is hard wired to act out a belief in God.

  2. Ierrellus … if you could ‘see’ the promised land the Moses analogy would not work … he never saw the promised land.

Science will not save us. It is more likely that it will do the opposite.

Religion is likely more capable of saving us than science is. How likely is it? Which kind of religion would or should it have to be? Would or should this religilion be a theistic one? If yes: Would or should it be a religion of pantheism (is already very close to atheism), of monotheism, of polytheism. If no: Would it or should it be a primitve religion, at least a heathenish religion?

If the demographic, economic and political development we have been experiencing for a pretty long time will go on, then we will get a syncretistic religion or just the islamic religion which is a monotheistic religion and currently increasing the most. This is possible and probable, but not what I would like to have.


Just returned from my morning walk along the beach(ocean) … an interesting vista this morning … both physical and ephemeral.

First the physical … the surface of the large body of water … the visible ocean … was glass like … so smooth. Yet as the incoming tide approached the shore, large waves formed and splashed up violently onto the shore … almost reaching the extremity … the outer boundaries of high tide marked by dampness in the sand and a line of small sea shells.

The ephemeral … my conclusion … right or wrong:

Big “C” consciousness is splashing vigorously on to the shores of small “c” consciousness(human consciousness) today!

Some thoughts that popped into my mind … in no particular order:

  1. Since oral language emerged people have used stories, myths, legends, parables and so on … to plug the holes of the “unknown”. The “unknown” was scary way back then and truth be told, remains scary today. Who faces death peacefully … without their consciousness being ‘numb’ … the consequence of chemical cocktails.

  2. The stories, parables, myths etc drifted together and formed clusters. The clusters drifted together to form religions … the Bible being a significant single instance of a large cluster of such stories etc.

  3. Religions served a dual purpose … plugged the holes of the “unknown” and provided a beacon for the forward march of humanity into expanded consciousness. Religions have not been destroyed … they have simply moved beyond their shelf life expiry date. The human family is moving beyond religion(s) … like iit or not … to a new paradigm where heiarchy, dogma, institutions and rituals are no longer useful. The transition is self evidently very painful.

  4. The transition for Chinese people is much easier since they largely avoided the paradigm of heiarchy, institution, dogma and rituals of religion. 18th century European intellectuals … the Liebniz crowd … recognized this fact. They couldn’t understand how such a sophisticated civilization could emerge without religion. Though the Chinese have always had religion … Chinese people over the age of 8 have long recognized the expression “Dao De” … literally translated … “The Way … Virtue” . Seems the Chinese religion has always been more focused on the built in biological model … more on this later.

  5. Some thoughts concerning parables. Parables are a powerful communication device … employing images of every day life to explain the “unknown”. For example, parables involving sheep were employed extensively 2,000+ years ago simply because most of the lives of the people of the day included sheep. Parables involving sheep fall on deaf ears today for the same reason … few peoples day to day lives involve sheep. Though, for people like myself, who have observed sheep behavior in near normal circumstances … flocks, shepherds and open range … the 2,000+ year old parables retain their luster.

  6. Emerging technologies provide new opportunities for meaningful parables. For example, the images of firmware - software combinations are familiar to a very large community of peoples. Let’s use the firmware-software model as a parable/metaphor/analogy for the human being. I mentioned in an earlier post that the human biology is hard wired to act as though God existed … espousing belief or non-belief is peripheral.

  7. Human biology is a firmware-software combination. Our biology has built in firewalls that are akin to our immune system … in both purpose and utility. Like our immune system … our built in firewalls are breached frequently … a virus in the case of our immune system … a false belief in the case of our “firewalls”.

:sunglasses: NT … when 2 or more are gathered in my name … I’ll be there.

  1. Post modernist resurrection of :sunglasses: without the religious garb is labelled “Collective Wisdom”.




PS … couldn’t get rid of the ‘smiley’ … hmmm!

Technology may yet overcome the nihilistic and apocaliptic doom day. Even Sofia said she wants family and feelings.
It can go either way for Mankind, the world, our universe, if we recognise what the end really is, not only a cliche abused mantra-the beginning , but the eternity which can be here in people’s hearts, mind and soul-or can be.

This choice between universal and singular manifestations of all the dualities, despite their appearance of transcendence, is basically an imminence of astounding magnificence, acting in concordance. The final battle may be fought with a sigh, rather then the usual orgy of bloodletting.

The ocean reverberates the message of the pounding surf, the incessant tides and the eternally bubbly foam.

And if Christianity had not overrun Europe, then Europe would have kept and further on developed its own religion: the European religion.

*) “Classical” means here: “Ancient-Greek-and-Ancient-Roman-before-both-became-Christian”.

Hello Armenius,

It is true also that early rites were demarked insofar as a variable territorial border claims, where mixed mythologies appeared. Certain Pantheons , marked a mixed veneration between Germanic and Norse and Greek mythological ameliations. Odin had one eye because he implanted wisdom.

Religions imported through rites and rituals found fertile ground for these types of subtle changes, and this is my guess, but involved changes of political and territorial alterations as well.

I am with those who see biological perseverance as evolution toward goals, hence exemplifying purpose. For religion to attend to the destiny of man it must accept our world as it is, If religion is to ameliorate the human condition, it must assure us that the I and the we are of equal importance, that to see either as most important supports the conflicts we now experience.

The age of I in the Western world, stemming from the Protestant and Industrial revolutions, has benefitted many lives with comfort and prosperity. The age is waning and we are in a sore transition. The age had its proper place in attending to the well-being of individuals. The I must not be forgotten or diminished; it must, however, give leeway to the equally important we. Biology includes a variety of particulars that merge into one thing. It has accomplished for us the task of seeing the many as one and the one as many. That is the first step toward enlightenment.