English-Divine Language Argument

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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Simulation or Divine REAL_IT_Y?

Read my paper - pdf - here:- www.androcies.com/gnosis

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Please summarize some of the arguments here.

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If you apply your own rules for what makes a language divine, Mandarin actually wins over English.

Homophonic density - the idea that short sounds compress a lot of meaning because single letters in English sound like full words. But in Mandarin, almost every short syllable carries multiple core meanings. A single spoken sound like shì can mean “to be,” “world,” “time,” “truth,” and “history,” depending on the character. I mean, man, that’s a lot of complicated and interesting meanings compressing into a single syllable, but it’s not just quality, Mandarin would win on quantity also. If having short, overlapping sounds means a language has compressed semantic meaning, Mandarin’s got more meanings in its basic sounds than English ever could.

With graphic-semantic overlap, you draw pictures over map outlines to claim there are hidden visual shapes embedded in geography. Mandarin doesn’t need made-up drawings placed over coastlines. Its written characters naturally build picture clues directly into every word. The words are pictures. That’s what Mandarin words are. The character for “bright” is physically made by combining the symbols for Sun and Moon, and the character for “rest” shows a person leaning against a tree.

Then with embedded logic and structural wordplay are supposedly unique and the best. Mandarin builds everyday terms right out in the open. A “computer” is literally written as “electric brain,” and a “dinosaur” is “frightening dragon.” It even uses numerical sound-alikes for intentional shorthand, like using the number sequence 520 to mean “I love you” because the numbers sound almost identical to the spoken phrase. In Mandarin you don’t have to break the words apart to show the special meanings or commentary or connections. The very structure of the characters is doing this. It’s how the words are made. There’s no detective work. And as far as the sounds, this happens so much in Mandarin that it affects what people do. Clocks aren’t given as gifts because giving a clock sounds like ‘attending a funeral’. This is an ever present ongoing effect and no one needs to point it out.

So if we take your criteria as the correct criteria for a divine language, Mandarin’s better, but more than that it is systematically so, given the way the language is made up. What you are trying to show is ‘in’ English by finding puns and patterns using maps, this is all right out in the open and part of the structure of the whole language. It’s built into Mandarin more than it is in English. It’s the rule, not the exception.

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And why Chinese are so good at maths and Chinese children are much more likely to have absolute pitch. Still, I don’t think there’s a Chinese equivalent of Shakespeare.

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Well, of course I could do that but I’d rather you read the PDF. Are U insisting U don’t have the time to read the PDF, because I assure U I don’t have much time to spare for this forum :slight_smile:

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My dear fellow, either you didn’t read the PDF from start to finish or U are clearly failing to see THE important premise of the argument. DIVINITY - GOD.

Firstly: English is now the common default protocol for communication across the entire globe, so if a Divine being, GOD, were to make evidence of itself via our communication language, English was destined to be IT.

Divinity – Christianity (the demographically the largest religion in the ENGLISH speaking world).

HELL is a place nobody should ever want to OWE.

HELL_O – happens to be the greeting that is used the world over all day, everyday.

Y_O_U ? – why owe you ?

U_O_Y ? – perhaps you are of the most vile sin, perhaps you do O HELL

worth_Y ? – not worthy of being reincarnated wo/man = 666 to end up the energy of man upon: MEN_U ?

SON of man (Christ - I am the LIGHT) – SUN of man (our life giving LIGHT)

A man’s best friend is a DOG, reversed, GOD (could be a man’s worst enemy, per level of SIN)

Genesis: The Tree of Knowledge (of good AND evil)

KNOW_LEDGE – KNOW that there is a LEDGE as you reach out to the eat of the forbidden fruit.

Mount SINAI – SINAI where man was issued the commandments not to cross into SIN - AI

Now we CAN comprehend an ALL knowing entity via AI, particularly one that is running below the Planck scale constructing our REAL_IT_Y = knowing of our SIN

TIME – EMIT 
A photon EMITS from an ELECTRON: An EVENT has occcured = TIME 
time reverses to EMIT (in physics this is an astronomically ‘short’ period of time, far below even a zeptosecond) and this is where GOD constructs our REAL_IT_Y, our BRAINS are databases to this entiy, it nose everything within our minds. (from 28 years of gnosis - 1997)

Y = WHY – perhaps the greatest question in Christianity – Y = the symbol Christ made upon the crucifix.

And, then of course there is the geographical shapes of landmasses TIED LOGICALLY to English words..

So, case in point. There may be some odd linkages numerous in Mandarin, but prove to me ANY directly SPEAK of GOD.

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I am insisting that 1) if you think I am going to click a random link online from someone who can’t even convince me he has anything interesting to say, then 
um, no, and 2) if you cannot even be bothered to summarize in a couple of paragraphs about WHY what you have written is interesting, then clearly you either do not understand it or are too lazy to bother in which case and again
 um, no, why would I?

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The link isn’t random, it’s tied to the title premise. BTW: Care factor zero, don’t waste my time.

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Then don’t waste mine by spamming links to shill your stuff without even bothering to give a few sentences of why anyone should care.

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Or was what you just said merely another AI-generated response? :joy:

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What, you think Mandarin doesn’t have characters for God, the Divine, etc? They do and since they are characters, there’s no need to dig or use reverse spellings - the language is saturated with combinations like your list and homophones and the other criteria that supposedly mattered (in your pdf) but suddenly don’t even warrant a response when shown to be even more common in Mandarin. The funny thing is you can even find words in Mandarin that fit with important Christian ideas. Righteousness (矩 - YĂŹ) - from two characters: The Parts: 矊 (Lamb) placed directly over 我 (Self / Me). True righteousness is defined as “The Lamb covering the Self”—a direct visual representation of Christ (the Lamb of God) covering human sin. And because Mandarin does this kind of thing as a rule. You can find not just the paltry list you had to be creative to make, but 100s and 100s quickly without doing any gymnastics at all. The processes you consider divine in English and, yes, can find some examples of, are the rule in Mandarin.

So, what do you do? You repeat your position. Assume things. And leave my post unresponded to.

OK, got it. Enjoy your thesis and your imperviousness to reason.

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lol. If you could reason intelligently you would comprehend the gaping difference.

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I do agree.

The paper as written wants to be a proof. It’s not. But as a testimony of gnosis—as a record of what reality looks like to someone who has encountered the divine—it’s coherent, and the patterns it identifies are real as patterns.

The detractors are right that the argument doesn’t prove God. The author is right that the patterns are there. The Gnostic says: both are true, and neither is the point.

The point is that the author has seen something. The paper is an attempt to show you what he saw. Whether you see it depends on whether you’ve been given the eyes.

I agree, because I saw something as well.

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What a clear post Meno, lovely.

My point was not that his pdf doesn’t prove God. My point was that by his criteria other languages are more divine. I’m not an atheist nor an anti-theist. Yes, he does use the patterns he finds in English to make a kind of divine watchmaker argument. But I was not focused on that part.

And, ironically, if Mandarin has even more of the patterns, this would only make an even stronger argument for there being a grand designer.

But I never went on to that stage of the argument. I did not and do not think the evidence supports English as the ne plus ultra divine language. There are several that meet his criteria better than English, and Mandarin does by several orders of magnitude.

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Greenhouse:

I think that’s the point precisely, whether God is ascribed through language, or God speaks through a meta structural language conveyed through preformed aspects.

The difference is as subtle as to become immediately seemingly insignificant , indistinct.

The point expresses a natural tendency toward balance, harmony.

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The correct answer is French, Italian, or Greek.

(The romance languages in general. )

:clown_face:

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Italian, for Christians, has the added advantage of being close to Latin.

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Since you asked to read your paper, I decided to check it.

A paper with no references is already a bad start.

I will skip the definition of God in the prelude. I have raised criticism on that in this forum, but I can take it as granted for the sake of the discussion.

P2: “random chance or linguistic evolution”. No randomness in the evolution of any language. All of them were developed according to the needs and usage of the people that speak them. This evolution is continuous and continue today too.

Prelude to evidence for P1:
“having letters of the alphabet sound phonetically identical to actual words”
You seriously mentioned that French does not have meaningful words that sound like their letters?
a – a, à
c – ces, si
d – des
l – elle
m – aime
o – eau
t – thĂ©
And these without counting the similar phonetics of c – ce, c’est, d – de, e – est, et and so on.

Statistical Improbability supporting P1:
The English alphabet is basically the Latin with three additional letters. It is used by many other languages too. With regard to randomness, I have already addressed it. Thus, the probability study for me is useless.
I agree with your conclusion: “The structure of English letter-word homophones constitutes evidence of a non-random underlying order in the formation of linguistic reality, thus, an intelligent design.” The people that spoke and keep speaking English (or any other language in general) have intelligence. They intelligently designed their language, according to their needs. No specific reason for God’s interference at this point.

Cumulative Evidence supporting P1:
Linguistic coincidences
 Seriously? People in every language like to play these games. It becomes superstition at one point.

Thought-Provoking Opening Verses within Genesis:
The Bible was not initially written in English. What you have in your hands is a translation of a translation. The translators have spent a lot of time trying to keep the essence of the originals and provide a nice linguistic result for the readers.
“buy bull” = Bible: I really laughed with that.

The Tree of Life and The Tree of Knowledge:
And the linguistic games continue

DOG reverses to GOD: Do you really want to make this type of connections? If an atheist does it, people will call him/her blasphemous.

Further Examples of Linguistic Patterns in Key Words:
More linguistic games


Geographic and Linguistic Convergence supporting P1:
More linguistic games


Conclusion:
“language, as encountered in English, exhibits characteristics consistent with intentional design rather than unguided emergence.”

I agree, the people that speak English designed their language according to their needs.

“In this sense, the English—Divine Language Argument does not claim to prove God in the
traditional sense, but it does establish that the hypothesis of a non-human, non-random
organizing intelligence is more rationally coherent than its negation.”

Sorry, I do not see that. You made a case for the design of the language, but at no point you excluded the human factor.

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How about Hungarian, one of the most complex, if not the most complex language , in all respects, not generic in any sense except as somewhat derivative to Finnish?

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@meno41

Don’t know much about it other than it, Gaelic, Icelandic, and Finnish are some of the oldest languages spoken in Europe today.

:clown_face: