It’s very simple, I’ve said it a few times in these boards, but I get so damned pissed off that people don’t think morality is objective, that I’m making it’s own thread.
Moral law: Make suicide as easy as possible and nobody does it, we are in utopia (good)
Anything that decreases suicide rates when suicide is as easy as possible is morally good. Anything that increases suicide when suicide is as easy as possible is morally bad.
Homicide will increase suicide rates, so homicide is bad.
I just wanted to take a moment to clarify that this is the meta solution to ethics… billions of minds have pondered it and not solved it, I solved it, this is the solution. There is for a fact right and wrong, good and evil, and there is an objective way to measure it. This is a great achievement to actually solve ethics itself, or at least it’s meta solution, and not all the micro solutions, though you can solve the micro solutions by not contradicting yourself.
This is why we consider illness bad, because it can cause suicide.
etc…
This is why sexual stratification is evil, because it causes suicide.
Bad is something where there’s non-sentient intent, evil is where sentient intent is involved.
That’s it… it ends 40,000 years of debate. Now you know the meta-solution to ethics. It was solvable, and it wasn’t “there is no good or evil”.
I’m sure you’ve read books like soylent green or brave new world, but these authors were not insightful enough in their suicide societies to realize how close they were to actually solving ethics itself, that this is a cosmic LAW. Not even gravity is a cosmic LAW. This solution works both in the real world and the dream world, it works in every possible universe.
I consider it the greatest achievement in human history to actually solve ethics, and you’ll be infinitely hard pressed to find one that is greater or equal to it.
You’re reading it on ILP in the year 2015. Which makes this the top philosophy site in the world.
Peripheral , sorry I didn’t get your messages earlier. My first reply also didn’t send because of a weak signal at this ranch. Everything you described about clinical depression comes from external factors that may be alleviated with drugs by dulling the senses. The main point is that if suicide is as easy as possible and nobody does it, we represent more purpose for being here inherently, and since by definition of the suffering involved , nobody actually wants to be suicidal, it is an inherent, objective good to this regard.
Peripheral , sorry I didn’t get your messages earlier. My first reply also didn’t send because of a weak signal at this ranch. Everything you described about clinical depression comes from external factors that may be alleviated with drugs by dulling the senses. The main point is that if suicide is as easy as possible and nobody does it, we represent more purpose for being here inherently, and since by definition of the suffering involved , nobody actually wants to be suicidal, it is an inherent, objective good to this regard.
No, much of what I described about clinical depression comes from internal factors, such as genetically-determined chemical imbalances such as serotonin deficiencies. Where exactly are you getting your information about clinical depression?
Please rephrase this. It is a run-on with fragmented clauses and is very difficult to decipher.
Evil doesn’t even exist outside of being a label, it is subjective. I can think you’re evil or bad right now. Does that make it objectively true? Same thing with good. These labels form from ignorant opinions and certain influences growing up.
So, the Nazis and child rapists are no more evil than puppies and Dairy Queen ice cream? If you truly believe that, then where do ethics come from and why should we have laws against anything?
Well puppy ice cream would be evil that’s for sure.
Are they ‘evil’ or are they ‘what the world is’, and why are we attempting to be different to the world? If you had different causality that would be you as ‘evil’, and thus in short there is no difference between a good and evil person or act. Consider it as if say your life is a vehicle going down a road and that’s all there is.
Sorry, I was away on a trip, so I couldn’t respond as quickly as I normally do. Everyone has different biochemistries which are triggered from the environment… put someone with clinical depression in a different environment and you can remove the clinical depression. Oddly enough clinical depression is often a coping mechanism for high sensitivity, and in this world, probably a healthy response. People who are not clinically depressed on earth, well… you’re looking at the dysfunctional ones. I once remembered a famous in certain circles evolutionary psychiatrist once said that he was curious why people set goals so high they become depressed… what I wonder is why they don’t all do.
if you’re actually committing yourself to seeing everything as just "what the world is, "then you can’t condemn the Nazis, pedophilia, or slavery and have no belief in right or wrong whatsoever. If you believe that and actually punish your children for anything, then you would be quite the hypocrite.
While I don’t believe in “evil” per se, there is definitely right and wrong human behavior that is either beneficial or detrimental to individual humans and humans as a society. All pack animals have such rules of behavior for the benefits of their pack and its members. Since you don’t believe in any of this, why and how would you even dare to complain about or condemn another human’s behavior?
This isn’t true at all. You would need to provide legitimate studies as evidence to support this false supposition.
Clinical depression isn’t a coping mechanism and is not a healthy response. It is an excruciating physical condition that creates enough emotional, physical, and psychic pain to cause its sufferers to often commit suicide to escape that pain. You clearly haven’t actually studied clinical depression as you are terribly uninformed about it. What exactly is your education?
Do you know their lives? What influenced them as children? What shaped them into what and who they were, their ideals and motives? if not then yeah… evil is subjective and doesn’t exist outside of a label.
Everything results from influence, positive or negative. Depending on which said beings are around they will be molded by it. People are like clay, they are shaped by surroundings.
Take a dog since it is a living creature for example… Beat the dog, it will bite. Treat the dog, it will lick. Humans are like this as well. It depends on ones mind, experience/influence and learning. Some people are smart, but no common sense/wisdom. Some people are wise/with common sense, but lack academic intellect.
Some people are just born sick, psychopathic, odd ideals and pleasures. This does not make them evil, it may mean their personality/mind is sick however.
Right and wrong are whatever we choose it to be. If we humans chose eating Ice cream was wrong, it would be wrong. Similarly to how coffee is ok, but marijuana is condemned.
We’re not discussing the cause of evil behavior’; we’re discussing whether or not specific behavior is evil or not. So, your question is irrelevant. And since you think evil is “subjective” then you can’t say anything is right or wrong for anyone but yourself. It also says you think nazism, pedophilia, and slavery are no more inherently worse than going for walks or playing golf…and that’s terrible. Also, if you think right and wrong are all subjective, your teaching your kids any form of right and wrong would be purely hypocritical.
Firstly, this too is irrelevant; we’re not discussing causes. Secondly, it’s untrue. Much behavior comes from genetic determination. You need to read up on your biology and genetics.
Read my above answer. It applies perfectly to what you just wrote. Secondly, what exactly is your education? I’m very intrigued, since it doesn’t seem like you’ve studied much philosophy. I’ll keep mum on what I think of your common sense.
You just countered what you said above when you said “everything results from influence.” Try not to contradict yourself. Also, if you are excusing those who are born sick, you obviously admit those who aren’t could actually be evil. So, you are contradicting yourself again.
P.s. You never answered my question about where your ethics come from. So, where do they come from?
No it’s not. It’s also determined by our shared values, experiences, and biological needs. According to you, the Holocaust, pedophilia, and slavery could actually be right…and that’s heinous
You think like my mom does… some people are just sick… well the problem with evil, is that unlike a cold or a flu where EVERYONE knows they are sick, evil people think they are healthy… and the problem of reassigning the blame is that it just means they were evil… or that there is evil. So it’s evil to beat dogs… even if dogs are mathematical formulas that all dogs who are beaten bite… then that makes the person who beat them evil, and if they were beaten that makes the person who beat them evil etc…
