exploring the "fractured and fragmented" self

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

Sorry for duplicate

[iambiguous]

@Shemp

@iambiguous

@Shemp

Shemp.

@Shemp

don’t know that person

Right, like Mr. Reasonable didn’t know who Tyler Durden is.

I think you are being a bit parochial.
I assume Mr Reasonable is a poster here on the FOrum. But who the fuck Is Tyler Durden?

Anyway, given the real deal free world, your call. Drop the Stooge persona and perhaps we can actually exchange some interesting posts.

I am who I say I am.
Fucking Americans should take the trouble to get their heads out of their arses once in a while!

The Stooge being, uh, clever?

[iambiguous]

@biggie

Note to nature:

"I can actually understand this. What gives? "

@Meno

me no says:

What gives is that the the positional significance of the fissures and fractures coded in the bionominal duplicity-(amb- iguity) is postscribed within a transcendental certainty of the implicated fracture.

The fractures are derived from the implicated post Descartes’s era of uncertainty.

You and all have to live in the shadow of this implicated angst.

Note to nature:

I dare you to explain that. Implicated or otherwise.

[iambiguous]

@Aventador

Maybe this whole fragmented fractured thing is an exercise in keeping the fragmentation away, maintaining the pristine unity of his self.

We’ll need an actual context, of course.

@Aventador

Difficult choices are other people’s problem. For him, it’s a unitary monolith of self. Not by pulling coherence in, but by pushing fragmentation out does he maintain the integrity of his unified self-image.

For actual difficult or political choices, there is always emotion. Thought is for the fragmented. And this is achieved by expelling any thought he may have in the form of a question. Doubt, of course, can only come in when an answer is attempted to a question, so that part is for others. And by the pressure of their answers, but also the absence and, indeed, rejection of the very principle of answering in himself, the integrity of his Freudian ego is maintained. If you think, you doubt. If you doubt, you lose. He does not think. He does not doubt.

And he covers any embarrassments by mechanical output of quotations and music.

Note to nature:

Please, one Meno is enough on this thread.

Seriously though, is this guy willing – able – to discuss the manner in which I do construe the fractured and fragmented self given a particular set of circumstances.

Philosophically, for example.

Given, say, the manner in which I explore it myself on this thread: ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop … 1&t=194382

Or is he/she just one more Stooge in the making?

[Aventador]

@iambiguous

discuss the manner in which I do construe the fractured and fragmented self given a particular set of circumstances

I’m not exactly sure what this means.

I’m sure you mean it to mean something.

But I’m not sure what it means.

[Aventador]

And you never went to Vietnam.

I have a $1000 right now that is yours if you can furnish any proof that you ever set foot in Vietnam.

You old quack.

[iambiguous]

@Aventador

@iambiguous

discuss the manner in which I do construe the fractured and fragmented self given a particular set of circumstances

I’m not exactly sure what this means.

I’m sure you mean it to mean something.

But I’m not sure what it means.

Okay, here is the OP of the thread I noted above:

@iambiguous

If there is one thing I am clearly preoccupied with at ILP, it is relationship between moral and political value judgments and the existential tajectory of the lives that we live.

And, in almost every thread in which I post about this relationship, I eventually get around to this:

1] I was raised in the belly of the working class beast. My family/community were very conservative. Abortion was a sin.
2] I was drafted into the Army and while on my “tour of duty” in Vietnam I happened upon politically radical folks who reconfigured my thinking about abortion. And God and lots of other things.
3] after I left the Army, I enrolled in college and became further involved in left wing politics. It was all the rage back then. I became a feminist. I married a feminist. I wholeheartedly embraced a woman’s right to choose.
4] then came the calamity with Mary and John. I loved them both but their engagement was foundering on the rocks that was Mary’s choice to abort their unborn baby.
5] back and forth we all went. I supported Mary but I could understand the points that John was making. I could understand the arguments being made on both sides. John was right from his side and Mary was right from hers.
6] I read William Barrett’s Irrational Man and came upon his conjectures regarding “rival goods”.
7] Then, over time, I abandoned an objectivist frame of mind that revolved around Marxism/feminism. Instead, I became more and more embedded in existentialism. And then as more years passed I became an advocate for moral nihilism.

This because in it are embedded two experiences that were of fundamental importance in shaping and then reconfiguring my own moral and political narratives.

Over the years, I have gone from an objectivist frame of mind [right vs. wrong, good vs. evil] to a way of thinking about morality in human interactions that basically revolves around moral nihilism.

And, then, in turn, this resulted in my tumbling down into a philosophical “hole” such that for all practical purposes, “I” became increasing more fragmented.

This hole:

If I am always of the opinion that 1] my own values are rooted in dasein and 2] that there are no objective values “I” can reach, then every time I make one particular moral/political leap, I am admitting that I might have gone in the other direction…or that I might just as well have gone in the other direction. Then “I” begins to fracture and fragment to the point there is nothing able to actually keep it all together. At least not with respect to choosing sides morally and politically.

In other words, I am no longer able to think of myself as being in sync with the “real me” in sync with “the right thing to do”.

So, I decided to create this thread in order for others to at least make the attempt to describe their own value judgments existentially. Values as they became intertwined over the course of their lives in “experiences, relationships and information, knowledge and ideas.”

The part where theory is tested in practice out in particular contexts out in particular worlds.

This thread is not for those ever intent on providing us with “general descriptions” of human interactions. Interactions that are then described almost entirely using technical or academic language.

Instead, this thread is for trying to explain [to the best of your ability] why you think you came to value some behaviors over others. Linking both the experiences you had and the ideas that you came upon that shaped and molded your thinking in reacting to them.

From time to time I will bring it back to the top in case any new members might have an interest in this.

Here the focus is on my “fragmented and fractured” sense of self in regard to the abortion wars. But it could pertain to any other set of “conflicting goods” that have rent the species down through the ages.

How about you? Are you or are you not “drawn and quartered” in regard to your own moral and political value judgments?

[Aventador]

Again…

[Aventador]

@Aventador

And you never went to Vietnam.

I have a $1000 right now that is yours if you can furnish any proof that you ever set foot in Vietnam.

You old quack.

[Aventador]

You’re too good to claim $1000? What are you rich or some shit?

[iambiguous]

@Aventador

And you never went to Vietnam.

I have a $1000 right now that is yours if you can furnish any proof that you ever set foot in Vietnam.

You old quack.

Note to others:

Great, another fucking Stooge! I give these guys a chance to note why on Earth they are here at a forum called I LOVE PHILOSOPHY. And this is what I get?!!

As for proof that I was in Vietnam, I’ll note the information listed on section 24 of my DD214:

BRONZE STAR MEDAL, ARMY CONMENDATION MEDAL [w/V dev], NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE MEDAL, VIETNAM CAMPAIGN MEDAL [W/60 dev], VIETNAM SERVICE MEDAL, OVERSEAS BARS [TWO], EXPERT BADGE M-14, EXPERT BADGE M-16

So Mr. Smartass, is there going to be actual exchange between us regarding your own “sense of identity” or not. You know, this being a philosophy forum.

I am, after all, running out of names to call my Stooges.

Oh, and how close have you ever come to actual armed combat?

[promethean75]

Biggs was once an outstanding soldier, but his ideas and methods became unsound.

[iambiguous]

@promethean75

Biggs was once an outstanding soldier, but his ideas and methods became unsound.

Actually, I was a rather shitty soldier. Just ask Sergeant White who sent me to “rocket city” Song Be. Or Colonel Hayden who received the Silver Star after our MACV had been destroyed. And this son of a bitch wasn’t even there! Or at least that was the general consensus.

And of course this part: youtu.be/VKcAYMb5uk4

[promethean75]

Life, like war, makes shitty soldiers of us all, iambiguous.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

@iambiguous

@biggie

Note to nature:

"I can actually understand this. What gives? "

@Meno

me no says:

What gives is that the the positional significance of the fissures and fractures coded in the bionominal duplicity-(amb- iguity) is postscribed within a transcendental certainty of the implicated fracture.

The fractures are derived from the implicated post Descartes’s era of uncertainty.

You and all have to live in the shadow of this implicated angst.

Note to nature:

I dare you to explain that. Implicated or otherwise.

That wer’e all are fractured since the days when men could assure themselves of the rational progression of their abstracted lives.

Since then. Science has unearthed the greatest uncertainty that he ever faced; because if God did not exist, He had to be created to fill that hole.

[Aventador]

@iambiguous

@Aventador

And you never went to Vietnam.

I have a $1000 right now that is yours if you can furnish any proof that you ever set foot in Vietnam.

You old quack.

Note to others:

Great, another fucking Stooge! I give these guys a chance to note why on Earth they are here at a forum called I LOVE PHILOSOPHY. And this is what I get?!!

As for proof that I was in Vietnam, I’ll note the information listed on section 24 of my DD214:

BRONZE STAR MEDAL, ARMY CONMENDATION MEDAL [w/V dev], NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE MEDAL, VIETNAM CAMPAIGN MEDAL [W/60 dev], VIETNAM SERVICE MEDAL, OVERSEAS BARS [TWO], EXPERT BADGE M-14, EXPERT BADGE M-16

So Mr. Smartass, is there going to be actual exchange between us regarding your own “sense of identity” or not. You know, this being a philosophy forum.

I am, after all, running out of names to call my Stooges.

Oh, and how close have you ever come to actual armed combat?

Yea, mine says the same thing too.

Asshole.

Hey dude, it’s a free $1000. What’s the problem?

[phyllo]

That wer’e all are fractured since the days when men could assure themselves of the rational progression of their abstracted lives.

Not everyone. The ones who are “fractured and fragmented” expect, want, need, everything to be black and white.

Since then. Science has unearthed the greatest uncertainty that he ever faced; because if God did not exist, He had to be created to fill that hole.

They also imagine a black and white god.

[Sculptor]

@iambiguous

As for proof that I was in Vietnam, I’ll note the information listed on section 24 of my DD214:

BRONZE STAR MEDAL, ARMY CONMENDATION MEDAL [w/V dev], NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE MEDAL, VIETNAM CAMPAIGN MEDAL [W/60 dev], VIETNAM SERVICE MEDAL, OVERSEAS BARS [TWO], EXPERT BADGE M-14, EXPERT BADGE M-16

And how do you feel about killing people trying to defend their country against a foreign invader?

Have you ever been back?

And do you accept that the US lost that war?

[promethean75]

“And how do you feel about killing people trying to defend their country against a foreign invader?”

Oh oh I know! Fractured and fragmented?

[Peter_Kropotkin]

@promethean75

“And how do you feel about killing people trying to defend their country against a foreign invader?”

Oh oh I know! Fractured and fragmented?

K: Prom, have you killed before?
I for one hope, pray in fact that killing another human being does cause
one to be “fractured and fragmented”…if not, then that person is a
true “psychopath”… killing another human being should be hard and gut
wrenching and bring about questions of good and evil…

I am a good person, and yet, I killed… so am I good or am I bad/evil?

if killing is wrong, as suggested in the bible, Thou shall not kill…
and we have laws forbidding the act of killing/murder…
so how would I be able to justify this act of killing/murder?

if that doesn’t cause one to become “fractured and fragmented” what will?

personally, I haven’ killed and I hope to the end of my days, I never have to kill…
because what does it say about me that I have killed?
nothing good I am sure…

Kropotkin