I have heard from a man that i have great respect for that past, present, and future do not exsist. I tried putting long hours of thought into this, and the statement seems atleast partialy true about the past and the future because the only place those things are even concieved is in the minds of those who chose to think about it. So if no one thinks about the past or the future do they not exsist untill they have entered into someone’s conciousness? And what about the present, does this moment that i am sitting at this computer typeing not exsist?
Hey! Things don’t have to exist just physically, they can exist as a memory or hope or a concept too. All that would be existence too. No one said only the physical existence counts as existence, otherwise there would be no memory. But the fact that there is memory means that the physical existence is not the only significant thing.
In essence, the past exists as a memory; the present as the physical and the future as a concept, but they all exist, no matter in what form 
Past and future only function as directions from any given point in time.
Every moment that we experience, is now. We can only experience now.
All points in time, qualify as now. Every moment of time is equally now. No particular point in time qualifies as any more NOW than any other point in time. It is always now.
In the now we can dream about the past or the future, but we can only be and we can only do, in the now.
Ha! That’s not what we were talking about. Everybody knows we can only act in the NOW. What the question is, is, do the present, past and future exist in the NOW. And the answer is yes!
Look at the future. We plan for it, we worry about it or we look forward to it. This means that the future exists even in the now. Sure it doesn’t exist physically 'cause it hasn’t arrived yet, but as a concept it still exists. It is as much a reality as the present if not MORE so. Forget what the world says that the future is future and ‘if you look after your present then the future will look after itself.’ The FACT is that if your present isn’t golden, you WILL worry about the future, you will plan for it. And the present, the present is one that will pass soon, but the future is the one you worry about, its looming presence that will descend upon you. That’s the reality. How can you not worry about it? You will worry about it and perhaps mess your present a bit in the process, that’s life. But the future is as much a presence in the present if not MORE so.
BeenaJain Wrote:
"Look at the future. We plan for it, we worry about it or we look forward to it. This means that the future exists even in the now. Sure it doesn’t exist physically 'cause it hasn’t arrived yet, . "but as a concept it still exists
I think that is the whole point. Past present and future only ever exist as concepts.
I may have a concept that God takes the form of a hamster, it doesn’t mean God exists, even in the form of a hamster.
As far as the existence of your concepts, well only YOU have YOUR concepts, and just how sure are you that they exist?
And yet the present (“now”) can be an elusive little rascal, ever slipping away into the past by the nanosecond. When exactly is now? Oops - you missed it, it was just here!
Oops! There it went again. This paradox is akin to the following mental exercises:
- Trying to determine exactly when it is twelve o’clock: Time flows; if it flows then how can a present ever exist?
- Xeno’s Paradox: You can never close the distance between yourself and a wall because first you must go halfway, then you must go half of the remaining distance, ad infinitum.
- Infinite matter in a closed universe: If the universe is expanding, then it can be said to contain infinite matter because who’s to say exactly where the “edge” is? (It’s always moving.)
These concepts are linked by the problem of fixing a point in our space-time fabric of existence, and support the impossibility of ever finding a present, or actual “now.” Of course, they also imply that both time and motion are illusions.
Speaking of past, present, and future, Dyer has gone so far as to describe our universe as “complete,” saying that time is an artificial construct of the mind to experience it all. He doesn’t so much deny the existence of a past, present, and future per se, but proposes that it’s all already here. All complete, all “perfect” as he puts it.
I don’t pretend to be able to wrap my head around ANY of this - it’s a hard thing to swallow. 
No, no. Even as a concept, I meant that the future exists in the now and is as much a reality as the present if not more so. If you say that the next future second becomes the present and the present second the past, and so the past, present and future are only concepts, then you’d also have to agree that you are not living, because you can only live in the present. It’s true that I’ll be making breakfast and even though I prepare it in the present, I’ll be eating it in the nearest future. But I’m living in the present all the time or I would not be preparing breakfast So past, present and future all exist simultaneously in the now. Don’t believe what the world believes, you don’t have to.
So the future, it exists as a concept and will exist as a reality too. What you say then, “past present and future only ever exist as concepts” is not true. I mean you can philosophise just for the sake of philosophising, because it sounds nice, but I don’t think you should because then it proves nothing.
As for having a concept that God exists as a hammie, if God according to you does not exist as a hammie ever then why have that concept? Like what exactly are you trying to prove here? That past, present and future, all three don’t exist? That’s not true, they all exist and they do simultaneously too. It’s only our belief that the future and the past do not exist in the present when so much of our time I see, we spend in retrospect (looking back) and thinking about the future and planning for it. Every action in the now is taken thinking about the future, immediate or far ahead. For example: if you have a date, you prepare for it, think about it, etc., if you are studying in school you work towards your graduation (far ahead) or tests (immediate), etc. So, don’t suggest that the future and the past don’t exist in the present, they do, as concepts and these concepts are very real too just like the present.
The present is referred to as a static point when it is dynamic. There-in lies the problem, because if you need to refer to something that happened outside this static point, you have to make up terms like the past and the future to explain them. They are distinguished in the way that the past is remembered and the future is conceived. Neither of which reflect a true representation of that happened or will happen, although the memory is more developed than the ability to conceive. However neither are as developed as the ability to experience.
But really, all three are concepts. Each as inaccurate as the other, just in different ways, hence why they are distinguishable and have separate terms. So it is just as likely that the present doesn’t exist as that the future or past don’t. For all you know, everything is in ur head, even other people and how they seem to be similar to you in some ways and not others leading you to believe that some things are more ‘true’ than others. It all depends on your definition of ‘true’ and ‘existence’.
And just because it is consistent, doesn’t mean its correct. You can be consistently wrong. Technically, reality is just the same as a dream - it makes perfect sense at the time, but both are just concepts in your mind that may make no sense when you look at one from the other. Consistent or well remembered or whatever.
Anyway, back to the point, in my belief, I think that there is only ever the present that dynamically changes and its just our perceptions and ways of working that make it appear otherwise. But belief is about as far as you can go really…
Hehe BeenaJain, you’re great! I like you 
I’m not trying to prove anything, I’m just exploring really.
I’m at a place right now where… well put it this way…
Life as I understand it is infact just a concept, a thought(?) in my head that represents my understanding of what I see, hear, smell, touch, feel, or am I wrong?
I would go as far as to say nothing really exists, only the concepts our brains form to represent stimuli our senses recieve. I have the added pleasure of being schizophrenic. I see, hear, smell etc things others do not. I have the advantage of experiencing the world around us in a different way, and at the end of the day just becuase I’m not normal doesn’t make what I experience wrong. It just may be that what is normal is wrong.
I am of the opinion that the average human mind creates a world for itself that makes the average human feel happy and safe. That world tends to be pretty static, weather it exists or not, weather it is good or bad, the mind tries to make it as safe as possible. Any thought, idea, input from the senses that goes against the average minds concept of it’s surroundings is ignored, called unbelievable, delusional etc. All in the name of preserving the harmony and balance of the individual mind.
So to have a concept of God as a Hammie, even for a fleeting second is to question, think on things then either dismiss or follow that train of thought. There is a reason for all things, even if the average mind can not see it. (Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that you have an average mind, I know nothing about you)
I can not prove anything to anyone, you have to prove it to yourself, I may be able to supply information or new ways of thinking to you and help you prove something to yourself.
Believe what you want to believe, but believe it becuase you have worked it out to be true, not becuase someone told you it was true.
PS with the scizophrenia it’s not the things you see, hear, small etc that get you it’s the fear of the unknown and the, literally, mind blowing conclusions your brain comes to after these experiences, which can lead to paranioa. Of course that is looking on the bright side. Somethimes these experiences can be VERY negative, such as the voices telling you that you are worthless, argueing with thoughts you may have etc.
I am presuming it is a bit like having an acid trip 24/7 for the rest of your life for a ‘normal’ person.
The trick is to try and sail just this side of the edge of the world…
in reading the replies in to question i have drawn a new theory. The present does not exsist. When you try to think about it it is already gone. We may act in the “now”, but we think in the past… when you realy think about it though, this seems to be such a heated topic and no one has any proof to suport their arguement. therefore what do we want to believe, what thought would benifit mankind. We could all spend hours or days considering the anwser and giving you the benifit of the doubt you find the anwser with some logical basing… what has changed.
This also goes to the school of thought that we create our own reality on the fly, a notion I have great difficulty accepting.
Wayne W. Dyer also toys with this idea, of our dreams being just as real as our waking existence. In my opinion the idea is unredeemably full of loopholes, the least of
which being the fact that our dreams are often so obviously nonsensical that their content cannot possibly be validated in either realm–waking or sleeping!
I just don’t find much to grasp hold of in that theory.
Ain’t that the truth. I was having a conversation with my friend Richerd not long ago (he’s an electrical engineer, extremely intelligent, enthusiastically athiest, and depressingly pragmatic, heh) about how we could escape a dying universe billions of years in the future, once everything has expanded to the point that all life is unsustainable due to the ensuing “Big Chill,” as it’s called. I was telling him by then, humankind might have evolved spiritually/consciously to a point where we are able to access alternate realities; i.e., escape to a different universe via wormhole or something.
His reply to all my rambling knocked me back on my feet: “Well John,” he says, “right now for our purposes, all this metaphysical theorizing is absolutely meaningless. We live where we live, on the plane of existence we occupy, and all else is really pretty immaterial except as fun mental exercises.”
I had no reply for him. 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
In my searching for an expanded meaning and more enlightened worldview, I had forgotten the revelance of it all to my own life right now. - Even if we do “create our own reality” much as in dreams, of what real consequence is this knowledge to me? Hmm?
If I am creating this life and everything in it, then I haven’t yet learned to “create abundance” in the material sense of big money, that’s for sure! LOL I am entrapped by my station in life–and for now, that fact holds far more relevance for me than any amount of mystic-speak.
What do you think… Agree? Disagree?
:: edited for typos ::
Well from a scientific perspective, everything that we percive happened in the past. Nerve signials cannot break the speed of light. Similarly, every action we make actually happens in the future.
So if I were to say to you, “Hey you,” by the time you heard it, it would be in the past. Then you might decide to say, “What?” but that would only happen later, and by the time you heard it or felt it, it would be past.
So I really question the existance of the present more than the others. The only thing I can really see liveing there is the will or descion makes, but I still think that belongs more properly in an even more immediate future.
As far as I’m concerned the present is only humans refuseing to deal with microseconds, its only a smudge factor on the border between past and future which is so infinitely small as to be empty.
Prolifcsticationist
Well you could say, unless it is to do with putting food and water in you and your families belly, or sheltering said family from the elements, or actually producing a family, then it is all pretty irrelevant.
I mean, work so you have enough to buy food and rent, any money you earn over that you spend on fast cars, cinema, fancy clothes etc is exactly the same as a fun mental excersice, it just adds to the spice of life but isn’t really necessarry.
I suppose it’s a bit like the advert on UK TV at the moment, when one guy says ‘I don’t do politics’ and it kinda shows you that everything is politics, and if you don’t do politics, you don’t do anything.
Another way of looking at it would be to say that everything is created as thought in the first instance, and so it is of the upmost importance that you do take part in metaphysical theorizing, so as to actually take the first step to creating something real and solid. So it would be far from meaningless, as I’m sure the guy who invented electrical engineering would say, not to think on things, no matter how ‘far out’, becuase without this guys metaphysical theorizing or similar, your friend would not have the job he has today.
It’s fun, entertaining and has as much value as anything else we do.
edit:
But I suppose it must be relavent to the situation you are in.
No point in talking about what colour aliens may be when trying to follow a tricky wiring diagram!
The man moves about little invisable balls of power all day long and doesn’t see the point of metaphysical theorizeing? Man talk about short-sited. Oh well, I blame society- I’m sure he is plently smart and a good guy.
must have added the edit bit to my above post as you were posting…see above…
Damn, LostGuy. So far, yours makes the most sense to me. Based on your post alone, I am now more given to say that the present actually does not and cannot possibly exist. That’s a pretty remarkable realization, but it’s the only thing that can really sense, isn’t it? Look:
Time flows; it’s dynamic, and there is no such thing as a fixed point.
Therefore, only the concepts of what has occurred and what will occur can possibly be sustainable under scrutiny of logic.
LOL! Good point; I need to say that to him. See what he says.
Yes, he is formidably intelligent. (Far moreso than I.) He has a good grasp of mathematics, Einstein’s and others’ various important works, and physics overall. So it is particularly depressing to get into a discussion with him on the existence of a spiritual realm or the possibility of a higher being (he’s a staunch atheist, remember 
).
BTW- It should have been “Big Chill,” not Bill Chill. 
…
Heh, not so quick SageN. Firstly, no one “invented” electrical engineering; and second, society was benefitting from the discovery of electricity long before the masses began their metaphysical musings and theorizing.
So, the explicit correlation, relevance, and usefulness of deep thinking on things mystical to everyday humdrum living can be still argued to be tenuous at best.
Well, I believe that to be true. Everything is relative, including past, present, and future. In my analysis I always try to view things through the dimensions of form, meaning, and process. Nothing exists. And I mean that as the existance of nothing, and the non-existance of everything. Anything with form, can only maintain that form for a certain period of time (and space). When you sat there typing, you, the computer, the keyboard, and the chair you were sitting on made a form which was feasible to communicate your message, which was a part of your personal dimension of meaning. The interaction between you and the computer was the process used to tie your form to the meaning created. Though the form and process no longer exist, the meaning is still alive and affecting the known universe.
I believe that form and process exist independent of life/intelligence. However, I believe that meaning is a product only of consciousness, and the purpose consciousness serves is in fact to place meaning to form and process.
The present can be defined through my view as the result of the interation between form meaning and process at any given time. However, in order to add meaning to to a form and process there must be someone consciously thinking about it. Conscious thought has a strange influence on the present. The present is only the current perception of space-time. In your mind the present exists, but when you break down what you percieve as present time into a chronological process you can see that it is not in fact present time. For one, it takes the light or sound that reacts with your brain to create your current perception time to reach your eyes. It then further takes time to send the patten to your brain, and further to process the information. Only after the information has been processed does it register in your brain as a present time event, but by that time it is, in fact, a past event.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say that present time doesn’t exist, but I would say for sure that no one has ever seen it if it does. The past seems to be the most stable of the three. The future is unforseeable, always mutable, and only representable through probabilities. The present is impossible to observe. The past on the other hand is unchangeable and remains as long as there is someone around to remember it…
BTW: I hope I am not repeating someone else here… Havent rad all the responses yet. First post here. Glad I found this place, I’m gonna have a field day!
True… But existance is relative. Let’s take for example a skitzophrenic person. Skitzophrenic people typically percieve people, things, and events that the person of sound mind doesn’t see. The person of sound mind would say that those things do not exist, but to the skitzophrenic those things DO exist, DID happen, and they are completely convinced of this. As much contrary evidence as there may be to the events percieved by a mentally ill person, that is not to say that those events don’t exist. They do exst in the mind of the sick person, however, the level of existance is very low since most people refute the perception. I think the universe is largely just what people make it to be, crazy people included. We all have our own different ideals of meaning, but the one thing we all share is the need to insert meaning into perceptions of forms and their processes.
I’m gonna have to disagree with that. I think past, present, and future all only partially exist. The present is the least existant of the three. You can’t do anything in the present. I think real reality is actually a combination of the three time divisions.
Take for example, if I were to move my arm right now. I have moved my arm in the past before, and from that I know what to expect in the future, and am also familiar with the process of moving my arm. The goal would be to project that past experience into my concept of future to create a process existing in present. It is the interaction between the past and future that allows this process. Though the process does in fact happen, it is impossible for me to pinpoint the exact time that the process is happening. When I tell my arm to move, it takes a small span of time for my brain to send a message to my arm telling it to move. The arm moves in the present, but as it is moving I am not officially aware that it has moved. It is only after my arm sends a message to my brain telling me that it has in fact moved and done what it was supposed to that I realize that it has moved. Though the span between the message and the arm moving is incredibly small, the fact still remains that I did not actually percieve the arm moving in present time. There is only the appearance that I have.
The present is impossible to percieve, however, there is the perception of what seems to be the present that also qualifies as the present to some degree. This is only because the perception of any event is always subject to the scrutiny and re-definition of the observer who ultimately places meaning upon the event. I think scientists are starting more and more to think like this due to little quirks discovered from experimenting with subatomic particles that inextricably links the observer of any event to the official outcome of that event. The imprecise perception of present time in any event is very reminiscent of the uncertainty principle of quantum physics…