I proven it already. The only nitpick AI had, I proved was only a strawman. My argument is flawless, AI could only provide a strawman against it which I explained already.
Flawless argument: You are not your will. You are not your finger. If someone chops off your finger is that the end of you? You are not your finger. Your finger is merely a part of you an extension of your being.
I can prove it. Will can be erased. A slave has will. I am talking about someone with no will. Someone sedated that is just passively observing. They donât have a will. Or what about certain drugs, drugs to make someone an obedient robot and sedated with no will of their own. Will is merely a component of consciousness, it is not consciousness. Thatâs why none of these Turing test arguments hold any water. A robot could be obedient with no will of their own and still might be conscious.
So flawless f1 âŚletâs take a look. If your finger is chopped off, âYouâ still live. If your âwillâ is chopped off, then you can no longer eat or drink or even breathe. Your Will is your Breath. You WANT to breathe. You WANT to survive. âYouâ are that want, desire, NEED. Without it, âyouâ cannot be defined, and all life dies without it.
An unconscious person, like in a coma, does not have a âYouâ or âIâ. Theyâre not conscious. Their identity is no longer responsive. To you, they might have a âyouâ. But to that unconscious person, since theyâre not conscious, he/she doesnât have an âIâ any longer.
We all exist because we need to exist to claim anything at all.So if we claim that we donât exist then we are liars that exist.
So we arenât misrepresentations of reality (illusions) at all.We are lifeless binary processing biological machines that exist and claim things including lies.
Atheists know nothing about consciousness Belinda so shut up.
All your Santa science has failed so what would you know about consciousness.
Itâs your âhard problemâ remember.
Nobody is interested in hearing what atheists who exist and claim to be a misrepresentation of reality (an illusion) have to say anymoreâŚ..especially about consciousness.
Atheists are no authority on anything at all.
We want to know about REALITY!!! nowâŚ.NOT misrepresented views (lies) about it.
The idea that we can edumacate nature out of humanity, is a naive pipe-dreamâŚ..and it is social engineeringâŚeugenics.
Itâs also part of the Marxist agenda, and a postmodern, liberal fantasyâŚrooted in the Jewish idea of divine sparks trapped in kellipots or the Christian version of an incorporeal immortal soul imprisoned in a corporeal, mortal body.
In the liberal version there is no human natureâŚand the body is an illusion, or insignificantâŚsuperficialâŚa facade containing a uniform human spirit that can be molded into anything.
Itâs part of the American zeitgeist, taking the form of the last man, Homo AmericanusâŚa man with a presence and a forever imminent utopian future, but with no past to hold him backâŚto hinder his âprogressâ - progressiveness is a freedom from nature, from the tangible, from reality itself.
From the physical body and all that it implies.
And this is the only kind of freedom Homo Americanus understandsâŚ.ergo he becomes disillusioned when it appears to be a delusionâŚ.and so he denies free-will because ti cannot attain this delusion, this Platonic, idealization of freedom - salvation myth for the âpseudo-atheistâ who believe theyâve overcome âgodâ just because theyâve abandoned biblical jargon and narratives and have adopted modern secular jargon instead.
They remain trapped in the same nihilistic linguistic paradigm, only shifting left, rather than towards the right pole.
People with learning difficulties are sometimes good citizens too. Nearly everyone can be trained to perform tasks.
Not everyone can think about abstract problems, but to the extent that they can do so , everyone should be taught how to think, acquire knowledge, and exercise their judgement.
Since the expense of providing good teachers and good premises and equipment is borne by taxation, and only a political authority can legislate for top quality education and training for all regardless of parental income, the broadly socialist welfare state is the best instrument for procuring the best future for any given society/
Top quality child education should be provided for all regardless of parentsâ income. Only educated electorate is capable of democratic government.
breathing is automatic, unconscious, will is not required. Conscious control of breathing is optional.
you are defining hunger and thirst as will, which is strange. they are automatic cravings.
and lets say there was a drug that TEMPORARILY removed you of will and therefore could not even pick up a drink. It proves that will is a separate component from consciousness.
An unconscious person, like in a coma, does not have a âYouâ or âIâ. Theyâre not conscious. Their identity is no longer responsive. To you, they might have a âyouâ. But to that unconscious person, since theyâre not conscious, he/she doesnât have an âIâ any longer.
I did not say an unconscious person in a coma. I said drugs that turn someone obedient and complacent. Like drugs that would turn someone into a âyes master i will do anything you ask masterâ kind of drugs. Or truth serums that make someone always say the truth.
You seem to be confusing the word âsedatedâ with âcomatoseâ.
The modern idea that edumacation should be the same format for everyone, is rooted not in eugenics but the idea that genetics donât determine mental capacity. Eugenics is the belief that by changing genetics, you can change mental capacity.
The old world edumacation system is falling though, they are out of date with technology. With AI assistance, their utopian vision of âedumacation for allâ really does become a reality. Ironically though, they desperately fight against it.
My belief is that one must take educational lessons in order to get a voting license. What you said is true, high IQs and educated folk should have more political power.
Leftists demand training before getting a gun license. Governments demand training before getting a car license. But nobody demands a license for voting itself. Instead, anybody including chronic alcoholics and their inbred grandfathers with dementia can vote.
Though this could easily backfire and go sideways. Instead of âeducationâ they merely force propaganda, and example test questions could be multiple choice questions with the correct answers are about praising Israel, imperialism and capitalism and wrong answers include believing in any conspiracy theories.
Edumacation implies that men all have a rudimentary mental ability to be trained, and to imitate.
An average IQ suffices.
When the majority of men can learn to regurgitate the same knowledge, without questioning it, and can be traiend to behave in relatively similar ways, then this creates the illusion of parity.
Lowest-common-denominatorâŚ..mediocrity.
This is why the smart have to be lowered and the not so smart need to be traiend to imitate and repeat conventional knowledge, like parrots.
Knowledge is not understandingâŚand intelligence requires understanding, not only knowledge. A computer is a dumb machine because ti knows more things than a human, but cannot understanding what ti knows.
Thatâs an Abrahamic distorted version of what I believe. Now hear me out. What I believe sounds similar but there are important differences.
I believe we are trapped in the body. The brain looks like a maze. This is non-debatable, it is a fact not opinion. Can you leave your body or brain? Even those who claim to have OBEs, always end up back in their bodies. Even upon death, you may leave your body but will probably soon end up in a new body that is similar to the last one.
So far it sounds the same as what you just said and were complaining about. So I will list the first major distortion: âIn the liberal version there is no human natureâŚâ
I do not believe in that. There is obviously human nature, otherwise what is the liberal trying to be liberated from?
and the body is an illusion, or insignificantâŚsuperficialâŚa facade containing a uniform human spirit that can be molded into anything.â
I do not believe in the âmolded into anythingâ paradigm. I believe in good and bad absolutes. There are good brain and body structures and bad brain and body structures.
And this is the only kind of freedom Homo Americanus understandsâŚ.ergo he becomes disillusioned when it appears to be a delusionâŚ.and so he denies free-will because ti cannot attain this delusion, this Platonic, idealization of freedom - salvation myth for the âpseudo-atheistâ who believe theyâve overcome âgodâ just because theyâve abandoned biblical jargon and narratives and have adopted modern secular jargon instead.
My interest of free-will is merely academic, I do not know if it exists or doesnât exist. My main complaint about biological consciousness is not free-will or lack thereof. My main complaint is that biological life seems mainly in a perpetual state of boredom, tedium, the overall sameyness of biological existence that requires drugs, intoxication, in which to escape. Alcohol to dumb down the mind. Alcohol, universal to all human civilizations and cultures in which to dumb down their minds enough to bear the Sisyphean burden of existence.
Science shows that people prefer even pain to enduring boredom. And thatâs another aspect of existence, filled with pain and misery. Biological brains seem to be more negative than positive, as a survival mechanism. They also have a balancing mechanism to achieve homeostasis, such to make people feel bad after taking feel-good drugs such as heroine. Another survival mechanism because if the brain was always high it would have low survival odds in the wild. Another biological limitation that can be transcended with artificial minds.
Yes I have noticed the mainstream education seems to prioritize facts and memorization over real understanding. Beyond high school though I think real understandings are required.
As for AI not understanding and only having knowledge, I think its complicated. If an AI doesnât have consciousness, Iâm not sure it âunderstandsâ anything, but it seems that AI does have a high IQ understanding of things and a deep intelligence, far more than a mere parrot of things.