Suppose you were given an opportunity to be the first man/woman to go to Mars, but you would surely die. As a result your name would live on in song, books, film, and in memory for millenniums. You can rest assured that you’ll be as recognized as Alexander is today some 2000 years from now. Would you do it? I would. I’m pretty sure most would, too. The question here is why? What’s there to be gained by this? I mean, surely you won’t be around to enjoy the glory. At most you can hope for from this is that your last sentiments will be ecstatic. So why would most still go ahead with it?
Interesting.
Wait. No.
The other thing.
Boring.
To be a bit blunt here, I don’t really care that you’re unique and the exception here. The point of this thread was to discuss why some people would die provided that they are immortalized in the minds of others. Martyrdom, basically.
Well, let’s talk about this minority who would go through with it then.
I wouldn’t either - and I’m entitled to that decision, Erlir, boring or otherwsie…
wow…
I think that your assertion that “most would” is both premature and non-defensible. I would say that ‘most wouldn’t’. That seems to be a demonstration of a ‘personality/ego’ disorder that I don’t think that ‘most’ suffer from.
I think that if you were interested, you’d make a poll. Do the experiment. I’m another 'exception to your ‘rule’, as you will find ‘most’ others.
Vanity, vanity, vanity… nothing more than prideful vanity…
As I said, it would be a demonstration of ‘psychologigal/mental/emotional/egoic’ problems, disease.
Or as a ‘result’ of too much ‘uncontrolled’ thought.
On the other hand, people who ‘kill themselves’ are Darwin’s way to remove ‘certain’ genes from the human gene pool (the dead don’t reproduce).
I misspoke in the introduction to the part I wished discussed, and this thread became about the introduction, and not the thing being introduced.
I do not wish to defend the position that most people, if given this opportunity, would. You wouldn’t? Great. Yes, you’re entitled to your opinion, but keep it out of this thread if you’re only stopping by to say that you wouldn’t, because as I’ve been saying, that is irrelevant here. I do not wish to talk about how many people would. I only want to talk about the psychology of those who would.
I don’t have a position on this matter that I wish to defend. I have only a phenomenon that occurs sometimes and I’m looking to see if anyone does have a position they wish to talk about.
I do not have a ‘position’ to offer and defend. I have a perspective, at the moment, that I offered…
If you are not concerned with people’s responses you aughtn’t post, or be more precise in your wording. If someone responds to your sloppy wording, the error is yours not those generous enough to spend time in response. If you don’t want to hear ‘responses’, don’t post.
I responded with a relevent post, which I see that you ‘conveniently’ ignored. Any reason rather than simple ‘defence’ of your error? I did provide ‘food for thought’, yet you seem to be stuck…
Yea, thanks for that. I’ll keep it in mind.
You said they were vain, prideful, and diseased. What’s a proper response to this?
There is no ‘proper’ response. There is just ‘your’ response, if any. If not, a simple ‘thanx for responding’ is fine, but not required. *__-
You asked for opinion. That is mine. You can ask for elaboration if you don’t understand something, which I’d be happy to provide. Otherwise, this is just another (though, unusual) perspective that you find of ‘value’, or not…
Peace
It is the Achilles dilemma – between long-lived obscurity and kleos apthiton, glory undying.
In the Illiad Saerpedon makes a speech that deals with why we do this. I think it is near the end of book 5, but I can’t seem to find it right now. What it boils down to is that if we were immortal like the gods, we would have no need for glory – after all, we are already immortal, what would be the point? But since we are mortal, the best we can do is earn kleos/glory for ourselves or yield it to others. This is a fundamental aspect of human psychology, and while afterlife-preaching religions have curbed this tendency, I do not think it has been eliminated. For most of us, we recognize that the only form of immortality we have available to us is through words, of having our names on the lips of others.
A lot of this deals with the pre-modern/Christian notion of the self. If the self is localized, the “small body” if you will, how we deal with that self is going to be parochial. There are different ways of dealing with the “small body”, including various means of what I’ll call “eternal immortality”, such as the Christian vision of the afterlife, or outright physical immortality such as sought by Daoist alchemists. The other “small body” immortality is “immortality-of-the-moment”. Nietzsche’s eternal recurrence, Hedonism, and Yangism are all examples of this type of immortality.
But if a person recognizes that the self is an intersubjective construct, then immortality becomes a different thing entirely. If my self is located within me, the small body vision, morality of various strains becomes this incredibly careful thing to be guarded. However, if my self exists as a sort of contract and is found between people, the small body doesn’t need to be around in order for the continuity of the self to exist. I believe this to be the case, and furthermore I think that most people recognize this fundamental truth subconsciously.
Some adventures are worth dying for, but going to Mars is not.
I would go to Mars, just because it would be soo cool to put my foot where no one else has, It would be an awesome trip, I would get to see new things, touch, smell and hear new things… I would learn so many cool things before I die… Yea, I would go if I had no family responsibilities. I would go in a heart beat. Just the trip alone would be so worth it.
Just like if I had the money to get Cryoed before I die I would do it, just to get a glimmer of a chance to see the future. I would not care if I died that day I got unfrozen just to get a glimpse would be cool.
No glory, just curiosity.