I’ll shamefully say I skipped it all just to say god is existence itself, then the thread topic is true by definition.
1 Like
I suppose to some this would factor in. Words with fulfillment would lend credence to existence and even a sense of purpose could be shown in the words. I wonder if a supreme being would have been postulated if the Bible was never written. For every house there was a builder. The universe is expanding from what?
If God exists, you know, allmighty God, imagine he exists. Does he really owe you anything?
This is not proof of God. It’s just pointing out a faulty expectation.
If God does exist then he owes me an explanation, not the other way around.
Lol really?
By what reasoning does an infinetly superior being answer to you at all?
Way to miss the point by a mile.
Answer it anyway.
You don’t have to think of God as an infinetly superior being. You can just think of him as a postulation of an infinitely superior being.
A lot of things will become clearer then.
God exists. He is, was, and forever will be the Almighty Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. God speaks to me through thunder. I can hear it outside my window tonight. I believe he is trying to tell us that he is All-Powerful and asks for our loving, kind obedience. When the thunder crashes it feels like he is saying he protects us with an angry, sturdy fist and we must fear him and obey him or consequently feel his wrath.
Without belief in God, would such a natural experience feel so supernatural and beautiful to us mere mortals?
I’d say no. I often contimplate the extraordinary intelligence in the human machine. It operates in me! … How grey matter contains the vastness of consciousness, self consciousness, let alone the functioning of senses and organs and so on. Of course I learned a few things from anatomy and phisiology or I couldn’t say that. Nor can I say to you that a god created me. But if one did, I’ve already been given a lot.
full snark mode
The body in your profile pic was designed for full enjoyment. Imagine some being convinced it was an afterthought rather than a grand finale. But, sure, put it in a profile pic like it’s nothing.
/full snark mode
If you rephrase that to “I wonder if other cultures uninfluenced by the cultures written about in the Bible have a ‘supreme being’ concept/postulate (mind egg that is not mere wind, if you will)” — read “eternity in their hearts” by Don Richardson. The answer is yes.
Would the Bible have been written and would other cultures (including the biblical ones) have “conceived” even the concept of supremacy (which is not to say hierarchy, which is completely different and more about ordered distribution of labor to the appropriate skillset… the last will be first) … would mindless nature have programmed or have been programmable to prioritize/survive yada yada yada yada yada … without the unprogrammed programmer setting things up in such a way that they can flip the script and wow everyone (the master becoming the servant and switching perspectives because every person is a person, 'nd all)? The answer is no.
Its not a question of whether or not he owes me or anyone anything.
Its a question of owing it to himself. A question of integrity.
If we go by the bible’s idea that god has rules and preferences for how it’s creations should behave, then its his duty to properly inform them about it, for 2 very simple reasons:
- If he doesnt, then he himself is creating inevitable (and potentially permanent) suffering
- Not only that, but he is acting from a position of injustice and unfairness for no feasible reason of any kind
If god is loving, caring or on any level invested in the wellbeing of its creations, then he doesnt go around setting up invisible rules for them like a sociopathic child making lethal traps for ants to fall into.
1 Like
Well, nice debating there. Would love to meet the person it is you decided to debate.
Some inner struggle that I walked into or something. Good luck with it.
Naus, you’re immersed in the mental gymnastics of trying to make sense out of an intelligent god creating a world, demanding to be known, and then immediately hiding from his subjects. To make it past this much nonsense, you have to immerse yourself into even more: this god is lonely and wants people to choose to follow him so he purposely hides and let’s their freewill - which they can’t logically have if an omniscient god exists - lead them to him.
This is where you end up. And now you must also posit an alternative to following god… the other thing you can choose with your freewill (which you can’t logically have) if you don’t wanna follow god. That’s evil.
But now, you don’t wanna say god really created evil (because that would be uncool), so you say he moreso allowed it to happen. That it was someone else’s fault… Lucifer’s, in fact, for choosing to refuse God’s instruction, etc.
This is what you get when you bake a Christian cake. A big piece of illogical nonsense with frosting on it.
“Its a question of owing it to himself. A question of integrity.”
Is it, though? Who said god shouldn’t be a sadistic monster (if he could be)? If he is, then his integrity as a sadist is doing just fine (look at the world).
You are still two steps behind, Naus! These things are no longer problems. Pure indifference to god is our final attitude as we are tired of trying to figure him out. Please see the grand opening of Stirner MAXimus’s The Ego and Its Own… All Things Are Nothing To Me!
Your current signature: “I, a Member in good standing of the He-Man Woman Haters Club… Do solemnly swear to be a he-man and hate women and not play with them or talk to them unless I have to. And especially: never fall in love, and if I do may I die slowly and painfully and suffer for hours - or until I scream bloody murder.”
He-Man did not hate women. Otherwise, there’d’ve been no She-Ra, whose action figure I owned as a young lady, along with her pegasus, Swift Wind:
1 Like
Ok then, only because we had a semi-nice chat earlier.
The typical (Christian, mono-theist or typically subservient) view to God is that God will judge us when we die, somehow, we are expected to adhere to standards that God sets for us. If we don’t adhere very well to them, then God will punish us. This is not only monotheistic but exists in pagan religions too.
My point is simple: God created this entire world (we are going with the idea here, for the sake of the argument), God is all-knowing and therefore God already knows that we little finite humans have no actual proof or reasons to know what is the correct thing to believe, which idea or religion of God is the right one? We don’t know, and God knows that we don’t know. God also knows that HE made this world the way it is, with all of this baked-in ignorance for us humans not knowing shit about spiritual or higher truths, and on top of that God also knows that HE MADE this world so that we suffer, we are subject to pain and loss and confusion and suffering, some of us even to much worse conditions.
So it is God who is RESPONSIBLE for not only the way the world is in terms of massive human suffering but also in terms of the state of ignorance humans are in with regard to whatever spiritual or higher divine ideas might actually be true. Therefore, taking all of this into account, it makes no sense to say that God will judge us because God already knows exactly how and why we are the way we are (ignorant, suffering, finite, petty, etc) because HE MADE US THIS WAY. He has the responsibility for it. Therefore it is us, little finite beings who, upon our death and we may come face to face with God after we die, that would be the ones demanding “…bro, what the actual fuck? Why did you subject us to so much pain, suffering, and ignorance. And then on top of that you presume to judge us for it, for being the way YOU made us?”
See, if God has all the power, which he does (in this thought experiment anyway, and under pretty much every typical religions idea of God) then it is not us who will need to answer to God when we die, it is God who must answer to us (God must explain or defend his actions, because we never had any power to begin with).
I mean, let’s imagine if you setup an experiment in your backyard: You kidnap some kids in the neighborhood and put them into mazes that you build out of wood. These kids are blindfolded and have no idea what is going on. They don’t know up from down half of the time, or who is doing this to them or even where they are, and on top of that you put booby traps here and there to cause them pain and suffering. And the on top of all that you create some rules, like: “Only those kids who happen to make it out of the maze will be rewarded.” Or, “only those kids who guess the correct answer to who I am, will be seen as having been good in their lives; the rest will be tortured forever and ever.” 
Ring a bell? That is how typical religion acts. That is the common view of who God is and what he is doing… UNLESS God has some kind of higher purpose, an explanation that somehow justified him creating a world like that.
And imagine those kids happen to pass out in the maze, but wake up and are face to face with you, their captor who created their world and all of those above-stated conditions. Now what is the logical situation here, do they owe you an explanation or… just maybe, do YOU OWE THEM one?
1 Like
Listen, I don’t mean to refelct badly on your thought out reply.
But clearly it was not a reply to anything I said.