God isn't dead just yet. (Part 2)

Yes, but the cornered and dying ‘‘beast’’ is yet more ferocious than the ‘‘beast’’.

No, I think that the people/institutions who are the beneficiaries of these religions realise that the end is nigh and their fundamentalism/extremism is a sign of desperation. The very extremism of their views is directly in conflict with complex government, almost intentionally it seems, in an attempt to take ‘‘followers’’ from government and take them back to religion, to which most will have unresolved beliefs.
Think of it as religious Naziism, ‘‘we are the alternative to chaos…total control’’ I don’t think it bothers said people/institutions if the chaos is self-made.

Feels cursed everyday.

That is roughly a good basic explanation of where I am going with this thread. Yes. :slight_smile:

Everybody always remains the whore to the pimp that is the state. :laughing:

Bottoms up in serving! :laughing: =P~ :stuck_out_tongue:

All things are nothing to me only through me does anything become a thing.

What is the meaning of the doctrine that we all enjoy “equality of political rights”?

It means that the state has no regard for my person, that to it I, like every other, am only a man, without having another significance that commands its deference.

I do not command its deference as an aristocrat, a nobleman’s son, or even as heir of an official whose office belongs to me by inheritance.

Now the state has an innumerable multitude of rights to give away because they are its own, namely, state rights or “political” rights.

Withal, it makes no difference to it to whom it gives them, if the receiver only fulfills the duties that spring from the delegated rights.

He who only serves the cause, “devotes himself entirley to it,” has the true freedom so it is expunged.

What is wanted is not free movement and realization of the person or of me, but of reason- a dominion of reason with the state playing guardian of the holy spirit that is reason’s prime mover.

Political liberty means that the polis, the state, is free; freedom of religion that religion is free, as freedom of conscience signifies that conscience is free; not, therefore, that I am free from the state, from religion, from conscience, or that I am rid of them.

It does not mean my liberty but the liberty of a power that rules and subjugates me; it means that one of my despots, like state, religion, conscience, is free.

State,religion, conscience, these despots, make me a slave, and their liberty is my slavery.

The state does not care about preserving people’s individual way of life but on the contrary it only seeks to preserve its own existence by that of eternal subjugation.

The individual only matters when they sacrifice themselves only to known as slaves for those who show no submission they matter not in the eyes of the state.

I receive everything from the state. Have I anything without the state’s assent?

What I have without this it takes from me as soon as it discovers the lack of a “legal title.”

Do I not, therefore, have everything through its grace, its assent?

Does it not represent my almighty giver?

The state protects men not according to their labor, but according to their loyalty- to wit, according to whether the “sacred” rights entrusted to them by the state are enjoyed and managed in accordance with the religious will, that is, laws, of the state.

Humanism and its criticism specifically seeks that all individuals liberate their egos from all forms of limitedness so that they can entirely become a unified religious “human” ego.

Thought is the new religion. In the kingdom of thought, which, like that of faith, is the kingdom of heaven, everyone is assuredly wrong who uses un-thinking force, just as every one is wrong who in the kingdom of love behaves unlovingly.

Thousands of years of civilization has obscurd men what they are, have made them believe they are not egoists but instead are called to be floating idealists!

Finally amongst all this insanity only one defining thing can be said:

Individual freedom is he who is reponsible to no man other than themselves.

not true

there are somethings that needed to be " before me " such as air and water . without which the "me " would not exist in the first place. lets start here. do you deny this?

They can only be realized through myself only just like anything else.

( It is one thing to make a statement about a thing and it is another to sensually expirience somthing through feeling.)

It all comes down to solipsism.

Joker,

I appreciate the post and the excellent writing. You’ve definitely got a lot of Nietzsche in you, with your dramatization of what you consider stark (and undramatic) realities, as well as your reliance on aphorism. It reads beautifully, though I will leave you to consider whether it accomplishes its ends. In respect for your thread, I will respond, as best as I can, in kind. For those of you who don’t want to read, skip to the bottom for the summary.

You have shown me the iniquities of god, the inequalities of man, the vast suffering the mass of humanity has laid against one another. Show me this godless man of whom you speak. Show me this man who serves no god, not even himself.

For when one elevates herself, when one exalts her own morals, when one systematically, thoughtfully, with purpose and power rejects the dictates, the presumptions, and the force of her world upon her, does she not become a god? Does she not assume those powers that were granted the gods of antiquity, and does she not assume the powers of the gods we call the state or that we tacitly allow the right of inheritance to the egoists?

For such a man or woman as this has waged a holy war against the 10 commandments, the gita, the iching, and the sacred books of ancestory. Such a man has set the writings of moralists and ethicists into an eternal eclipse, and has cast an unceasing midnight upon the thoughts and actions of his brothers, as he has presupposed, even if on their behalf, his intimations of justifiable action, plausible morality, and experience of the world subsume theirs.

He has become the God of his own hatred, and he has submitted himself to the heavy-handed critiques he has levied so forcefully against the world of his captors.

How might a woman achieve liberation in a world of bondage? Can it be had by donning the garments of her oppressors, by taking in hand the tools of her oppression or by applying the shackles of dismissiveness to those who oppose? By no means!

Freedom is not gained in the auspices of the oppressor, just as it is not gained by wearing the bondage of slavery. But it remains that a man is not made free or slave by his condition. Our modern world, despite its errors, has conformed to the thinking of history, and has sought to universalize those concepts previously only conjectured, namely that freedom and bondage are the responsibility of the individual. That I can be made a slave by no man, by no government, and by no God unless I freely consent.

Is the corporation to blame that I buy their product out of my private or even enlightened conception of need? Is the President to blame that I voted him into office (note: I didn’t vote for W)? Is the moralist to blame that I tacitly consent to his precepts? Is God to blame that I choose to sacrifice my freedom at his feet?

It has been the role of God, his parishoners, his minions, and his partners to incent the mass of humanity to accept his empty promises. It has, however, been the willing choice of humanity to accept such an unequal bargain. It has become clear that oppression has not come to us from without; it has come, far more sinister, from within. It has lurked in the shadow of every man, in the heart of every woman, and it has come to light that the Deceiver was in fact the liberator, and the God of light was in fact the Master of Darkness. We can not blame the serpent that Eve bit the apple, but we can certainly thank her for it now. It is in this act of defiance, of desire, of passionate awakening, and of exercise of open consent that humanity must find its strength.

While this consent can and has been misconstrued by governments, by pontifs, by gurus, by statesmen, and by well-meaning individuals, it can not be taken from my hands until I freely give it, no matter the emotional, intellectual or physical burden I may have to bear to retain it.

But my freedom does not grant me a license to speak from on high. It does not negate the more essential state of my condition: one grain of sand upon an infinite landscape.

It is only by grave miscalculation that a grain of sand, that I, would find in myself the capability to turn back the rushing tide of history. It is with imminent failure that I, even if on behalf of every grain of sand that ever has been, would stand against the known forces of nature. Similarly, lest I re-assume my chains, it would be implausible to think that I play no part in the epic dance of history. That I, liberated, enlightened, am incapable of affecting my minute piece of the universe.

Having lifted the veil of God, having pushed aside the urges of the almighty dollar, it becomes evident that the fate of I and the fate of We is indelibly knit into the fabric of existence.

Were we of the mind to liberate ourselves and to bring that liberation to our brothers and sisters of the world and of the future, we must do so by means of our own liberation.

To that end, it is not God who must be destroyed, but rather human as God’s servant, as God’s captive, as the subject of God’s wrath or misguided love. To that end, let us march together in an historical coup to that heavenly palace and dethrone the mythical figure and all of his earthly companions and let us place ourselves, united, upon his throne. Let us each assume the power of God for ourselves so fully that the word ceases to have any meaning except “human”.

Our world has demonstrated with scientific precision, with god-like infallibility, that destruction is impossible. To that end, let us not seek to blindly destroy the object of our oppression, but rather transform it into the object of our desire - freedom, equality, life.

We are all Gods; we are all God; there is no other. No longer shall we submit to self-alienating dictates of unjustifiable coercive authority until we have rightfully assumed the inheritance that we have promised ourselves since our minds wandered into abstraction: divinity. And we can not assume such lofty thrones until the human and all of humanity has been transformed into God, and God into human.

Summary:

  • To attempt to individually combat God and its reflections (government, egoism, etc.) is the same as electing oneself God.
  • This transformation is as bad as government, et al assuming the role of God.
  • This is not freedom.
  • Freedom is the ability to consent.
  • Humans are free by nature, and can not blame circumstance for their bondage. That society has expediated systems of bondage has no bearing on the question of freedom, except that humans must revolutionize these systems.
  • Even free individuals are of minute importance in the vast universe and thus incapable of individually becoming or destroying God.
  • Thus liberation from God is a communal act.
  • God can not be destroyed (I will imply now, maybe shouldn’t be destroyed)
  • The fundamental problem is the separation of man from God, the lack of man’s ability to be free and godly.
  • It is this separation from God that must be destroyed.
  • The method for doing so is the transformation of man, both individually and collectively, into God; to equate God and human as equals.
  • In doing this, humans can assume the divine (after which it has always longed) and it can “destroy” God, by changing the meaning of the word into something antithetical to its present, coercive meaning.

I think your description of money is fantastic, Joker, because that is how a casual person will see it, and as you say, people seek a worldly “heaven” with it because people think they have some understanding of what they want in their lives.
But what people really want isn’t money or possessions or control, and really, that’s what money is; the power to control our surroundings without having to trust others, since we know others to be generally untrustworthy. What people really want is to be happy, and as corny as this old platitude may sound at this day in age, “Money can’t buy happiness.” In fact, some of the saddest people on earth are fantastically rich.
In the end, money serves only as a distraction on the road to the search for happiness; something that promises us happiness, but never really delivers, and by the time we’ve realized that, years of our lives, in many cases, have been wasted.

Money is the ideal that men must pay for their freedom instead of freedom being free to all by itself.

It is the ideal that all forms of substance amongst this planet is not free to all in natural open abundance but that instead all things “must” come under the dominion of men’s constructed simulated reality.

Yippie!

No more need for religion because now we have government!

Instead of bumper stickers that say “Jesus Saves” we can have bumper stickers that say “Freedom Isn’t Free!”

I’m overjoyed!

I reject both religion and government.

( shrugs.)

I think people desire to be free and social but since money pertuates a monopoly on both freedom and sociality we only fool ourselves into buying the religious systemization.

In reality people can be free and social without money at anytime of their choosing but unluckily for most state government ongoingly tries to make that reality impossible for people everyday where the religious value market system strips people of that choice entirely.

Such a man would exist as a primitive animal egoist.

What is the natural world of animals but a land of primitive egoists fighting against each other for power?

Am I not the god of my own life?

Certainly it is me who controls my own perceivement and vision of life not god.

Why does one need consent to do anything?

It is insane to say that the same constructions that brought bondage are the same systems that can relieve us from it.

God is a myth. I am god in terms of what I want to do in this life.

The universal mythic god doesn’t exist to be destroyed in the first place.

If a universal god existed I would probally feel the need to kill him.

So, by depicting yourself as your own omnipotent God, are you thus rejecting the community?

As far that I am concerned if a community has no benefit for me I am under no obligation to follow it.

Selfish egoism is survival.

Please explain your views. I would like to hear them.

[quote=“Tortoise”]

There is, however, quite a bit of propoganda regarding unchosen obligations.
Patriotism, and the willingness to die for one’s country, is an ideal trait.
People are told their whole lives that submission to the state is a virtue.
IT IS NOT.
That’s just one example among many.
/quote]

Is part of this statement meant ironically? You appear to be contradicting yourself - submission to the state not being a virtue v. willingness to die in battle being an ideal trait. Can you define your positions more completely?

I see egoism as the expression that I am the center of all things in my own individuality only.

Nothing remains in the center of life in my being that isn’t myself.

Everything that challenges me or anything that tries to hinder me is out of myself and therefore as a act of self preservation I find the need to combat them either through neutral competition or vicious slaughter.