Greek words: nomos, kalos k'agathos comment?

[my_real_name]

@Dunamis

As you can see, the meanings are diverse, and sometimes quite mundane. It is of note though that the kaloi k’agathoi are “the aristocrats”

Ah, the “hoi polloi”!* And we seem to have the same, culturally-based, meanings in English with the word “gentleman”.**

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An interesting fact I learned about the word “agathos” in Greek 1 was that there is no superlative for the word itself, but for three different moral meanings of agathos. And if i had my Greek book today I would share them with you…

Note: On the lexicon site, it gives several comparative and superlatives for kinds of agathos:

III. instead of the regular degrees of comparison, many forms are used,–comp. ameinôn, areiôn, beltiôn, kreissôn, lôïôn , epic belteros, lôïteros, pherteros;-- Sup. aristos, beltistos, kratistos, lôïstos, epic beltatos, kartistos, phertatos, pheristos.

perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt … ry%3D%2373

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*My mistake. “hoi polloi”, of course, refers to the common people, not the aristocrats.

**To expand on this thought, the Loeb Classics edition of the Eudemian Ethics translates “kalos k’agathos” as “gentleman.” Both terms are originally said of the aritocrats (“aristoi” = the best people), but are later said of all those with elevated habits – like those who hold a door for a lady (in English), or those who follow the good because it is the good and not just because it’s good for society (in Greek). (This last makes me wonder if those who call the agathos naive are not cynics who are too much with the world.)

[phrygianslave_the_wi (phrygianslave the wise)]

Dunamis

A couple of interesting observations/footnotes:

1. From Diogenes Laertius: “Plato was the son of Ariston and a citizen of Athens. His mother was Perictione (or Potane), who traced her descent back to Solon.”. . . “Thus, Plato the son of this Perictione and Ariston, was in the sixth generation from Solon.”
   What’s interesting about this is the appearance of the name of Solon, the lawgiver, (archon 594 B.C.) – one of the seven sages.

A quick glance at Plato’s Laws and it can be seen that it is a very wide and complex subject covering every aspect of living.

BOOK I

PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: An ATHENIAN STRANGER; CLEINIAS, a
Cretan; MEGILLUS, a Lacedaemonian

Athenian Stranger. Tell me, Strangers, is a God or some man supposed
to be the author of your laws?
Cleinias. A God, Stranger; in very truth a, God: among us Cretans he
is said to have been Zeus, but in Lacedaemon, whence our friend here
comes, I believe they would say that Apollo is their lawgiver: would
they not, Megillus?
Megillus. Certainly.

And, then,

Ath. What truth and what justice require of us, if I am not mistaken, when speaking in behalf of divine excellence, that the legislator when making his laws had in view not a part only, and this the lowest part of virtue, but all virtue, and that he devised
classes of laws answering to the kinds of virtue; not in the way in which modern inventors of laws make the classes, for they only investigate and offer laws whenever a want is felt, and one man has a class of laws about allotments and heiresses, another about assaults; others about ten thousand other such matters. But we maintain that the right way of examining into laws is to proceed as we have now done, and I admired the spirit of your exposition; for you were quite right in beginning with virtue, and saying that this was the aim of the giver of the law, but I thought that you went wrong when you added that all his legislation had a view only to a part, and the least part of virtue, and this called forth my subsequent remarks. Will you allow me then to explain how I should have liked to have heard you expound the matter?
Cle. By all means.
Ath. You ought to have said, Stranger-The Cretan laws are with reason famous among the Hellenes; for they fulfil the object of laws, which is to make those who use them happy; and they confer every sort of good. Now goods are of two kinds: there are human and there are divine goods, and the human hang upon the divine; and the state which attains the greater, at the same time acquires the less, or, not having the greater, has neither. Of the lesser goods the first is health, the second beauty, the third strength, including swiftness in running and bodily agility generally, and the fourth is wealth, not
the blind god [Pluto], but one who is keen of sight, if only he has wisdom for his companion. For wisdom is chief and leader of the divine class of goods, and next follows temperance; and from the union of these two with courage springs justice, and fourth in the scale of virtue is courage. All these naturally take precedence of the other goods, and this is the order in which the legislator must place them, and after them he will enjoin the rest of his ordinances on the citizens with a view to these, the human looking to the divine, and the divine looking to their leader mind. Some of his ordinances will relate to contracts of marriage which they make one with another, and then to the procreation and education of children, both male and female; the duty of the lawgiver will be to take charge of his citizens, in youth and age, and at every time of life, and to give them punishments and rewards; and in reference to all their intercourse with one another, he ought to consider their pains and pleasures and desires, and the vehemence of all their passions; he should keep a watch over them, and blame and praise them rightly by the mouth of the laws themselves. Also with regard to anger and terror, and the other perturbations of the soul, which arise out of misfortune, and the deliverances from them which prosperity brings, and the experiences which come to men in diseases, or in war, or
poverty, or the opposite of these; in all these states he should determine and teach what is the good and evil of the condition of each. In the next place, the legislator has to be careful how the citizens make their money and in what way they spend it, and to have
an eye to their mutual contracts and dissolutions of contracts, whether voluntary or involuntary: he should see how they order all this, and consider where justice as well as injustice is found or is wanting in their several dealings with one another; and honour those who obey the law, and impose fixed penalties on those who disobey, until the round of civil life is ended, and the time has come for the consideration of the proper funeral rites and honours of the dead. And the lawgiver reviewing his work, will appoint guardians to preside over these things - some who walk by intelligence, others by true
opinion only, and then mind will bind together all his ordinances and show them to be in harmony with temperance and justice, and not with wealth or ambition. This is the spirit, Stranger, in which I was and am desirous that you should pursue the subject. And I want to know the nature of all these things, and how they are arranged in the laws of Zeus, as they are termed, and in those of the Pythian Apollo, which Minos and Lycurgus gave; and how the order of them is discovered to his eyes, who has experience in laws gained either by study or habit, although they are far from being self-evident to the rest of mankind like ourselves.

and there is much, much more in a similar vein!

[My Bold]

Regards,

Peter

[Dunamis]

Peter,

Really good quotes. And I had forgotten that Plato was a descendent of Solon. This is no small thing, in that Solon was practically a mythological figure of civilization, a founding father.

[phrygianslave_the_wi (phrygianslave the wise)]

Dunamis

Came across this curious remark towards the end of Laws -

For of all kinds of knowledge the knowledge of good laws has the greatest power of improving the learner; otherwise there would be no meaning the divine and admirable law possessing a name akin to mind (nous, nomos).

Perhaps, then, there is in addition a relationship between nomos and nous. (noos)

Regards,

Peter

[phrygianslave_the_wi (phrygianslave the wise)]

Dunamis

And finally, from Plato’s Laws, again, the following

regulate our cities and houses according to law, meaning by the very
term “law,” the distribution of mind.

Regards,

Peter

[Dunamis]

Peter,

And yes, the third term missing here of course, is the logos, which is not only rationality, but simple speech, discourse, talking. The distribution of the mind, which the laws reflect, occurs through speaking, that is literally dia-logically.