I was reading and found the following…
This article suggests that meaning is derived from an integration of past, present and future and it may sometimes make a person feel sad.
Any thoughts?
Ref: Roy F. Baumeister, Kathleen D. Vohs, Jennifer L. Aaker & Emily N, Garbinsky (2013) Some key differences between a happy life and a meaningful life, The Journal of Positive Psychology: Dedicated to furthering research and promoting good practice, 8:6, 505-516.
I somehow find it difficult to fathom how someone leading a meaningful life cannot to some degree be conscious and aware of some kind of inner happiness or at least deep contentment.
The same goes for the happy but meaningless one. Unless you’re speaking of the ultimate hedonist who is unaware of how meaningless his life really is though to him/her it isn’t.
Is it meaning which would make the person feel sad or a sense of loss perhaps of what one once had?
Perhaps nostalgia would be a better word but one can also feel pleasure and a degree of happiness from that.
Thanks A.D.,
Not completely sure I understand the authors intention fully but I might imagine that the sadness that can arise out of meaning is that when we integrate past, present and future we develop regrets and this brings about a call for change. Regret and guilt are two very different mental states of being and so it is best to define these in our own minds before we draw conclusions. I am guessing that the authors are suggesting that the development of an existential crisis within us brings about purpose and meaning to life and this is more important than the pursuit of happiness in isolation.
I might image that a life that is meaningful for a sustained period of time will eventually bring about and evoke happiness within us.
I would think that the authors are suggesting that delayed gratification is far superior to immediate gratification… and a meaningful life is the ultimate form of delayed gratification.
I think that we humans, when faced with a choice, more often than not go for immediate gratification or the more short term gratifications (days, weeks, or even months).
So, humans tend not to address the subject they are faced with directly… we tend to address the subject we are faced with through how we feel about the subject (a rather indirect method for problem solving). So, when we begin to address a subject through meaning we begin to give it greater depth and clarity than if we were to simply examine it through the happiness lens.
Not sure, that was just me rambling about randomly it not a very well thought out process.
Cheers
Perhaps it’s useful to bring the word meaning down from on high and see it do what it is: a tool, not an ends. Think of language and meaning. Simply knowing what a word means doesn’t guarantee a specific feeling or mood. Knowing what a sentence means could yield any number of emotions. Now look at your life as a sentence, no pun intended. Simply discovering or translating what your life means is a mood neutral activity. I know what the sentence “you have cancer” means. Or “you won the lottery.” So meaning alone doesn’t = happiness.
However, if you know language, you will likely hear good and bad thing a throughout life. Most certainly you’ll become privy to subtleties that would have been lost on u if u didn’t know the meaning of words.
Once u discover the meaning of your life, you will be audience to the subtleties and finer pointed truths about your lot. You may for sure have deeper sorrows and higher feelings of peace. To achieve the lasting peace, knowing the meaning of life is no guarantee, but knowing it is rather a pre-requisite.
For me, it is more helpful to consider everything we do, feel, think or understand to exist on a continuum.
For example, if I consider the meaning of mathematics.
The five 5 year old and the 27 year old are correct and both learnings exists on the same continuum of learning.
And so the “meaning” may simply equate as a “definition” to some people or it may take on the term “meaningful” or “meaningfulness” or “purpose” or
“goal” or “motivation” or “enthusiasm” or “intention” or etc… but they exist on the same continuum of understandings of what life is about.
The formula of Meaning of Life = XYZ is also on the continuum.
But understanding “The Meaning of Life” is somewhat different to understanding “Bringing Meaning to Life” and with these different understanding we draw different conclusions.
Any question of life’s meaning comes down to “to whom?”
What does my life mean? To whom? The answer to the first question = to me.
Figuring out what it means to me isn’t a mere deduction. It’s also a creative act. Additionally the meaning only for sure applies to this moment. Tomorrow all bets may be off. The idea that someone has a meaningful life, as a whole, is problematic. Nobody can have a full grasp of the meaning of their “whole” life until the moment of death, and even then it would be near impossible to be in the state of mind to do justice to the task. It would be more a reflection of that one moment.
Given that meaning is a creative act, at least in part, it is empowering when you begin to know the drill. Gratifying. Happy. But to say meaning makes you unhappy but meaning is better than happy…that’s silly to me. A dangerous thing to actually believe, as some poor fool might be suckered into trading happiness for “meaning.” That would be bad.
There are people who seem rather shallow but less bothered by stuff than me. Outer stuff, inner stuff.
Despite their apparant ease of living, I would not trade places with them. (I would guess they would not want to trade with me either, though phenomenologically I get the impression I am better informed about what they are like, then they are about what I am like) I suppose I associate meaning with depth.
I also Think that if you are not deeply troubled by something these Days you are either a Child or cut off somehow.
Gamer,
I am not at all suggesting that meaning makes a person unhappy or is better than happiness. What the article suggested was that a meaningful life may be more admirable than a happy life.
Reality is that we trade happiness for meaningfulness on a daily basis without even knowing it. I have a lovely wife who annoys the hell out of me a lot of times. At those times I am unhappy… but I choose to stay with her during those tough times rather than go out for a cup of coffee or for a chocolate ice cream. At those times, when she annoys me, I am making a choice between happiness in the here and now and sadness in the here and now. I am investing by putting in the tough yards and wishing it pays off as happiness in the future. This is the notion of a meaningful life which can create sadness in the here and now (the existential crisis).
I would conclude that the person who invests more in the future will eventually be more happy than a person who invests more in the here and now.
Logically our intellect informs us that this is correct and true from our experiences… but emotionally our feelings inform us that this is false and untrue from our experiences.
I would also conclude that meaningfulness and happiness intersect when our logic and our emotions align with each other.
Once again it is useful for me to consider happiness as a continuum of emotions and not just one emotional state of being.
On one side there is the happiness derived from pleasure and on the other side there is the happiness derived from contentment… and in-between there is a flow and mixing of one and the other.
Moreno,
Agree with your post in many ways.
One question though… you used the word “Child” when does the transformation from Child to Adult occur?
That’s what I thought at first but I don’t think that’s necessarily true. One’s circumstances might have to change first.
Yes, it’s built in us. We’ve evolved that way.
That would be more the humans who direct their lives through their emotions and “feeling good”. Some guide their lives more through logic and cognitive thinking. I think we need to pay attention to both sides - both the intellect/mind and the emotions. The best way to go would be if both could be harmonized. Very often though it does amount to what “makes him/her/me feel good” even if on some level, we kind of know we’re going in the wrong direction.
Just as an afterthought here, if we’re addressing a subject through meaning, since meaning is in the eye of the beholder, that wouldn’t necessarily be addressing the subject in a reasonable logical way - but in a way which causes more harm than good ultimately.
Well, I’ve kind of re-thought what I wrote above. Maybe I’m wrong. Perhaps meaning doesn’t necessarily HAVE to bring on happiness. Someone might be aware intellectually that what they are doing is meaningful by their standards. It does serve a higher purpose. It may be really difficult and a struggle. This doesn’t mean that it will cause such an emotion as happiness to come to them. Their awareness that their actions are serving the world is the drive that keeps them going.
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I think both of these kind of flow within the same waters. Both hold onto something which is difficult to let go of. Regret goes back in time and guilt, if it stands still in the present moment, at least for me is about not taking responsibility. lol Maybe I’m wrong here. We can move forward out of both when we’re able to see things clearly, to forgive ourselves.
Yes, purpose and meaning is more important than happiness. But that would depend on the perspective of the “individual”.
An existential crisis can effect growth in us or it can destroy us, or at least weaken us with no growth.
That’s not to say that if I came upon a Reese’s peanut butter cup, I wouldn’t immediately pop it into my mouth. How could one possibly delay gratification with a R.PBC around. lol
But yes, I do agree with you here. But I think that this is something which has to be learned and it depends on the maturity of the individual. I would say that having the ability to delay gratification is one of signs of a mature person.
It’s also possible that when one has the capacity to delay gratification (except when it comes to peanut butter cups 
) one also has the capacity for deeper happiness.
I’m rambling here too. Nothing wrong with rambling and musings. You might notice that I’ve been walking forward and backwards here. lol
Bottoms up!
It varies and also I see no hard line no hard line. But I Think there is a transition earlier to teenager or adolescent. As far as I can tell they are all troubled, though some are disconnected from it. So we have Words for phases that are not things, shifts in tendencies.
When you have a small Child, the World can be the parents. If they are good parents that Child may not be troubled in any significant way at all. And the parents and the park and the dog and the blocks are enough. The Child does not need more. So in this womb, OK, I can see someone not being troubled. Some crap will be seeping in, but there is also an obliviousness in Children that can minimize the effects of this for a while.
This may be true but many things are built into us and we have evolved for in many ways. Humans reach sexual maturity at a very young age but I am not advocating the unmentionable. Humans have evolved to kill other humans but I would not advocate that this be taught in schools. Men are physically more stronger than women, as a generalisation, but I would not advocate for male superiority and domestic violence. If this logic applies then it must apply to all natural human states of being, emotions, thoughts or actions. After all, it would not be possible for serial killers, rapists and paedophiles to exist if we humans did not evolve that way. The fact that they exist is evidence to our human evolution … and so you have no other choice but to embrace them as natural and hence good. If you do not embrace them, then your statement does not convey meaning.
An interesting read is in the following artciles on the Psychology Today website.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mindmelding/201301/what-is-psychopath-0
I think this is a very powerful statement.
The Child becomes the adult when his priorities shift from “what am I supposed to do” to “what can I do that needs to be done”.
Very true. Though “what am I supposed to do” is quite mature, relatively speaking!
Agree with both of you, maybe the child is more like “do you like what I do”
One of the problems with modern society is that we no longer provide a line in the sand when a child is forced to become an adult. the child in us therefore never dies (in our modern disconnected world).
A good discussion of this (5 minutes) is by Joseph Campbell … very much worth watching all the way through.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU[/youtube]
I don’t personally think that it “occurs”. It flows and it ebbs, like the ocean. That’s kind of the way it is with happiness and meaning. It’s a continuum of transformation. It ends when we die. Sometimes we are child-like. We look around us and see the beauty of the world and we stop to wonder at it like children. And are overwhelmed And sometimes we are childish, kind of egocentric (in children that’s natural) and selfish.
I guess, if you find this view comforting and helpful then for “you” it is a great belief to hold and one that shows a degree of acceptance a maturity.
Would a meaningless Life be a happy one?
It seems so for some. Perhaps there is no single answer and a presumption here is that we are all the same at root.
Give me an example of a happy person who views life as meaningless.