sorry meant to go in that peace and violence topic but i think i pressed the wrong button
a movement can stay peaceful until it is confronted with selection pressure? while two movements are not directly competing for resources can they maintain peace indefinitely…and only when they grow to overlap will they confront each other?
Eisler proposes a partnership model for human societies that existed years ago, prehistory stuff, but then a “traditional” dominator arises- as competition for resources rises to an untenible position?
like a just nation being one which could absorb the pain it was done and still be a model of human flourishing movements have to be very focused…with a strong leader eg ghandi?..to work peacefully…but then each individual is autonomous within any organisation so unless you advocate brainwashing any individual can make every violent mistake he wants…
and if somebody needs brainwashing they cannot be ready to be a part of such an organisation…i hear a lot about the hippies, how only a few people in that generation got the message for everyone else it was just rhetoric, something to say to get them laid- so like man…overcome
[This message has been edited by thales (edited 14 April 2002).]
“In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock …” - Orson Welles as Harry Lime in The Third Man
maybe that tells us that our sterilization of life, away from those acts, is inauthentic because it denies fundamental aspects of life…or maybe it just means nothing…
To me it means that humanity loves pain and suffering. We hate it, but we only hate it because deep down inside of us we love it. And it inspires creativity and our imagination. Look at the last six great wars and all the books that were inspired from it.
Even Issac Asimov’s Foundation series were loosely based on the fall of the Roman Empire. Ender’s Game was said to be inspired by the ever growing Vietnam conflict. And The Lord of the Rings during the World War. Either one or two, I don’t remember. And that is just books.
peacefull times create weak humans with weak imaginations. The next statement I’m just throwing out there and I absolutly don’t mean it because I know many of individuals that prove as counter-examples: But it is much like kids that grow in neighborhoods that are high in crime and those that grow up in the 'burbs. Danger, stress, and trumoil inspires a wicked imagination while tranquility dulls it.
How about the Pax Romana (29 bc - 180 ad)? During this time they developed infrastructure, commerce, the legal system, and the arts. They have actually accomplished a lot during this time of peace.
I have no sources to back this up, but like ben’s quote says, alot of scientific acheivements have occured during times of strife. Look at the technologies the cold war, or even the first couple world wars gave to us.
The human race strives under adversity, and stagnates without it.
can anyone come up with a good theory of why that is? I think it has to do with our cavemen days. Fighting other clans / tribes allowed us to make better weapons or build stronger houses. Which allowed us to use that technology (and a few ounces of neccessity helps too) to expand on it.
The period Marie has pointed to was the highpoint of teh Roman cultural achievement. I would shorten the period Marie mentions to exclude the violent reigns of Nero, Galba Otho and Vitellius in the 50-60’s AD.
But during the Augustan golden age, lasting close to 50 years, Rome produced some of its most striking and memorable literature, architecture and other cultural achievements…Virgil, Ovid and Horace all wrote during this period…a period when the Empire was enjoying unprecedented peace.
This is great evidence contrary to your (general and hasty) conclusions…