Hi Vort,
I guess I should take this thread out of the previous one. I’ll respond to some of your points below as well.
Anyway, there is a book about the “collusion” between clients/patients (I’ll just call them clients), meaning that both “pretend” to do “real therapy,” when in fact they are not–REAL therapy (I’m talking about psychotherapy aimed at arriving at insight and addressing REAL, underlying issues, as opposed to simple exposure techniques or “coaching” or something “light”) involves providing a “loving” (or at least nonjudgmental, accepting) space in which the client can feel “safe” enough to explore his inner functioning…his beliefs…his past…his reactions to others and theirs to him, etc. The surest sign that such REAL work is happening is that the client starts to feel WORSE–>it means he is getting closer to the REAL issues which he has tried so hard to repress (often unconsciously). The reason he’s repressed them is a self-protective mechanism against the anxiety these “truths” would otherwise produce. So even barely approaching them again makes him anxious.
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned:
That’s the collusion: the therapist pretends she’s doing her job while not getting her hands dirty (and in many cases she IS doing PART of her job, at least by providing the empathy and acceptance and space to vent/reflect/etc), while the client pretends he’s living up to his resolve to “get better” or at least to seek help to get a partner or family member or other important person off of his back.
BTW, the “obsession” you mentioned about alcohol is very appropriate. Obsessions are just one way we deal with anxiety and other shit (even though the effects of these obsessions often lead to more anxiety, depression, stress, etc.). I’ve said it before: One way I deal with my shit is to write in this medium–I don’t want to burden my wife with another story of getting to meet a child who’s had her ribs cracked and a cigarette burned in her cheek by her biological mother, and who is now in a foster home where the foster brother may be sexually abusing her (I am not describing a real client here, but this is exactly the kind of shit I get to see each day).
Otherwise, I might deal with this stress by smoking, drinking, getting my ego inflated by gorgeous young women who thinks I’m the hottest prof in the world (which isn’t really so ego-gratifying, seeing how some of my colleagues are considered hot too, yet they couldn’t get laid anywhere outside of their class with a $1,000 taped to their foreheads… 
), etc…(btw, that last option is a little self-honesty referring back to one underlying motive for some of my flirting–though I don’t do it with students, just in order to keep my life simpler…). So your drinking reflects some of this need to cope with stress/anxiety/etc. (Of course, I’m just making vague generalizations b/c I don’t know anything about you and thus wouldn’t be so presumptious to make any claims beyond such generalities).
As for your depression and other issues, at least you’re being honest about them. Such honesty is missing from many other people who post on these forums, thus you see the kinds of exchanges we’ve seen over the past little while. I’m not going to throw out a bunch of psych-mumbo-jumbo nor try to take some “covert” jabs, but take a look at how some people respond to some of MY posts. IMNSHO (somenewname was right about the “In my not so humble opinion” meaning, though someone else mistakenly called IMHO “in my HONEST opinion” in another thread…I personally like her “orifice” interpretation best, but then again, I’ve never met an orifice I didn’t like…), I’ve given the most honest, realistic responses to certain issues, because as Xander so astutley pointed out, people really don’t want “advice,” they want someone to tell them that their decisions and thoughts are correct. Lacan (an analyst) argued that patients really don’t want to change; they want the therapist to somehow change the world so that it returns to that period in their life when their defence mecanisms actually worked–that is, they usually come to therapy after a crisis, which is usually a reflection of their once-sturdy defenses crumbling.
Vort, those who know me (in life or online) know I can be the biggest asshole in the world when I try…I can be very hurtful and insensitive (sometimes unintentionally, usually intentionally). In recent threads, I’ve given honest, accurate, REALISTIC responses that essentially say “you have to make the right choice for YOU…no one else can tell you what that right choice is b/c they are not in your head or shoes, nor do they know the people you are interacting with. Others can offer their opinions and advice, but all of that is reality filtered through THEIR experiences/beliefs/neuroses/histories/etc. and chances are, such experiences etc. are NOT the same as yours or those of the people you are interacting with.” And look at the kinds of responses such words elicit. But then again, as mentioned, look at other threads recently. Look at the ANGER…the HATRED…the RESENTMENT. All these feelings being evoked by mere words by practical strangers. IMNSH(and professional)O, such reactions are not healthy nor adaptive. I don’t take the ones directed at me personally, for I get the same thing with certain types of clients…I just see the PAIN that underlies these feelings (speaking of clients, the only time I make an effort to “give advice” is when dealing with the worst off clients…the ones who have had to be hospitalized for very extended periods of time and who will never be able to hold a job, take full care of themselves, etc., b/c in such cases advice is of the more practical type, which is something they can’t often arrive at themselves). This ties into my previous post about social “immaturity” (or lack of social skills/competence) of artists, isolation and so on, but I’m a bit too tired to articulate this theme further…some other time. But you see the relevance and truth of this, as opposed to lashing out and saying “Fuck you! You don’t know anything, you worthless piece of shit!!!” which is what many of the worse off clients do. And this is exactly what they do outside of therapy too, which of course drives most people away (or makes others fight back), including many therapists. If they decide to come back, they see that I will NOT do the same thing as others. Then there is potential for some change b/c in therapy, I’m trying to create a space and relationship that is different from any other they’ve experienced, and thus it has a chance to shake up their inner world (hence the potential for change). Plus, very importantly, this space allows them to EXPERIENCE their true emotions, fears, etc. without fear of being judged, harmed, criticized, etc., and I help them CONTAIN the fear and anxiety they experience. At least those are my goals (or some of them).
So, I essentially try to achieve what you wrote about with “Free of fear and all restraint.†And I agree with you that it “is total honesty.”
But the question would be–and we would have to ask Bessy about this, if she “got” this message when she was “assaulted” by you after deleting posts:
Maybe she did, and I’m in no position to put words in her mouth. I personally found the hostility directed toward her counterproductive to trying to spread love or forge any type of bond. That’s me. I’m not putting you down by stating this, I’m just expressing my opinion and perceptions.
Of course, even when I make far more benign (and, in all honesty, intended to be helpful) statements, it appears that some people take great offence and direct anger toward me. Again, not to try to hide behind psycho-babble, but that is projection and transference, pure and simple. I don’t take it personally, I just try to understand what kind of pain, fear, and hurt must underlie such actions…presuming I truly haven’t done anything to warrant such venom–some analysts hide behind such terms and “blame it all on the patient,” even when they say or do things that SHOULD be challenged with as much hostility and disdain and disrespect as I have seen in the past few days by a few members. To return to the present, I am pretty certain that I did not do anything so awful, thus I infer that it is their pain talking. Thus, I don’t get stressed out and I don’t respond in equal anger or disrespect.
It is the same in therapy as here, since I see we are dealing with very sensitive and personal issues in some of these threads. However, the major difference is that in therapy, it is my JOB–it is the career I have chosen…it pays pretty well (although I seem to take on far too many pro bono cases or go ridiculously low on the sliding scale). After being an asshole for so many years, I decided to dedicate my life to trying to do some GOOD in the little ways that I can.
My field is psychology and I am very proud of it. But I am probably more critical of it than nearly anyone else in my field (for good reason). However, I also try my best to dispel some of the myths around my field, especially when it comes to encouraging people to seek help when they indicate that help is what they want or need. I want people to realize that GOOD therapy can be incredibly beneficial. It’s not about the shit that Dr. Phil does and it’s not about advice or anything like that.
However, it appears that my honesty regarding these matters has not been well-received by a number of individuals–individuals who are not my clients and thus people to whom I have no obligation. So, I will ignore them completely from now on b/c they obviously have nothing to gain from my posts and I have nothing to gain from trying to write my thoughts on matters that pertain to them. It’s that simple. I don’t do it out of spite or hurt or anything like that. It’s simple efficiency and productive use of my time (though this post might contradict such sentiments…
).
I hope this long-winded post addresses some of the things you wrote (and didn’t write) about, Vort.
On a final note,
I have no respect for poseurs, while I have the utmost respect and admiration for true artists, even though many of them drive me crazy…I come from a family of true artists and thus have spent much of my time in the presence of madness…true, wonderful, liberating madness…
).
). But when I find more and more that, while on ILP, I am using the tools I have developed to make sure I do not take things too personally (even when they get quite personal) or let them get to me to the point that I write the kinds of things that have been directed toward me these past few days, the stress-relieving aspect of this forum is starting to look like an illusion.
).
Ahem, I’m over it.