Honesty

I was going to say, I never lie – but the more honest way to phrase it would be, I really try and do my best to never lie. I’m wondering if this really is the best way to go about things.

Quite recently I sent a resume to a prospective employer. At the time I was told the qualifications were minimal: ‘Have you had a job before?’ (laughingly) and ‘Can you be here at six A.M.?’ were the only questions asked when inquiring about them. Later on, however, I learned there indeed was a demand for six months prior experience working in a similar environment.

Prior to this, my girlfriend had suggested I put something on my resume that reflected this experience (that is, prior to even knowing it was required), and when I mentioned I hadn’t done as she suggested - that I don’t lie, as a matter of principle - she remarked, ‘And how far has that gotten you?’

I must admit, I feel empowered by honesty. It’s much less an issue of altruism or the cliché ‘honesty is the best policy’ as it’s a source of pride for my own psyche. I understand this. I also feel, at the same time, I’m a better person because of this conviction; that whatever benefit my sole existence is to humanity, it is strengthened hereby.

But there is certainly a dilemma here. Namely, my own personal success (as it relates to the social hierarchy, monetarily and otherwise) depends at least in part on my ability to manipulate and coerce my surroundings, which would, on some level or another, include lying.

Philosophically, too, there’s much to be said here. No doubt this conviction stems from my own writings and meditations, in which I’ve never strayed from the idea, ‘I will not deceive – not even myself’. So I suppose it’s become a matter of habit to go on applying this conviction to daily life as well – certainly a case of truly living one’s philosophy, as I believe we should. Yet it also goes without saying, lying can serve as a tool to unlock the same feelings of pleasure and empowerment as honesty – the enhancement of one’s existence does not discriminate. Why ought honesty predominate?

What are your thoughts on honesty? Might convictional honesty be a detriment to one’s success both in the social and philosophical realms? Perhaps there’s a place for honesty yet, but modern society (as well as the individual) still is not ready for its complete and total implementation?

if you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember which version of which lie you told to what person…

-Imp

ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/vi … highlight=

My two cents :slight_smile:

Impenitent:if you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember which version of which lie you told to what person…

K: Yep. As I am senile, I always tell the truth just for that reason.
Imp and I agree.
I believe this means that this is the end days that is
prophesied in the bible.

Kiss your ass goodby. the end times are here.
Yahhhhhhhhhh.

Kropotkin

Certainly a positive there. :smiley:

Honesty is certainly simpler. Constantly lying is like trying to stack marbles.

I doubt that anyone is completely capable of not lying or perhaps at least not telling the truth. It really is about a conscious intent to deceive that is the issue. If I intend to deceive, I’m lying. If I mistakenly tell an untruth, then I’m just mistaken. Look to the intent behind the words.

JT

But lying is fun. It allows one to get away with things…

siatd,

Sure, until you run up your own ass… :astonished:

JT

I’m not sure about lying in general but when applying to a job specifically it’s quite common that you are equally qualified for the job as anyone else so you have to sell yourself. I worked as a bar manager for a year and applied for the job having never pulled a pint or had any managerial work. But when they asked me what days I could do I said ‘every day’ and when they asked when I could start I said ‘right now’. That wasn’t true but the point is they are trying to whittle down the competition. They’ve got a lot of applicants of similar capability so they’re looking for anything that will separate them. People who start talking about how they ‘can’t do sundays because they see their gf then’ are just asking to be binned straight away.

So it’s not being totally honest but it’s possibly not that harmful. I got the job and had a great year. We employed about 20-30 staff, did a bit of refurbishment and even ended the year in profit. Never once did I get pulled up on the fact that I wasn’t available every day (unreasonable for most jobs) and I wasn’t asked to work until a few days after I’d been interviewed. Everyone’s happy :slight_smile:

  • ben

You feel empowered because you are sub-conciously “patting for yourself on the back”. You feel as though you’ve accomplished something that certain people deem worthy of praise: an honest answer.

But there is certainly a dilemma here. Namely, my own personal success (as it relates to the social hierarchy, monetarily and otherwise) depends at least in part on my ability to manipulate and coerce my surroundings, which would, on some level or another, include lying.

Do you truely think that your personal success depends on at least some ammount of dishonesty? Would you try to argue that no very honest person ever was incredibly successfull purely by chance?

I’ll give you that it can be a “quick-&-easy” means of manipulation, or “control-on-demand”, but I personally do not think that the civilization would continue to function if we were all completely dishonest. Nor do I think life would be incredibly exciting if everyone was completely honest all the time. So, perhaps life is a 50/50 mix of honesty and dishonest. Both components are necessary.

However, let me point one thing out: I, will not be among those who attempt to contribute to the “dishonesty-portion” of life. It is strictly against my moral code.

just my humble ramblings anyways…
:wink:

It’s expected that you’ll pad your resume, I think. Be forewarned, however, that outright fabrication can cost you your job if you’re discovered. There’s a line between selling yourself and lying.

The beauty of my job is that I got employed by being honest. One year ago this February, the dealership where I work had five “seasoned” porters (car movers).

I applied, thinking that there was incredibly little chance of me getting employed given that I had never worked before, I am under 18 (the minimum age you must be in order to drive the dealership’s vehicles. This rule was set by the general-manger), and they allready were over-staffed.

But I applied anyways. And I was completely honest. I was employed a few days later. I later learned that they had had many problems with the previous porters. The other porters were known to go drive around the customer’s vehichles (which were in for service) in the ghetto. In addition, whenever they were needed, the other porters were never around. One porter was speeding so badly that he almost ran over a customer! And, they all lied continuously…no good.

I have shown myself to be an extremely hard worker (I work 40-50 hours a week; 5 days a week during the summer), and I go the extra mile to do what I can to make the customer’s experience more pleasent. For example, when I pull up their vehicle for them, I make sure that I turn the heat (or AC) on so that the car is at the right temperature for them.

At anyrate, since I’ve been employed, I’ve been given unprescendented responsibility. I’m the only porter who has access to the New Vehicle keys, I’ve been the first choice of all of the sales team when it comes to moving the expensive cars (like $150,000 and up), and I’ve even been allowed to test drive the vehicles for the mechanics out on Woodward Ave (a street very, very famous for it’s history of drag racing. I’ve gone out of my way to make the other staff members and my boss look good to the customer.

And, I know that I would not have had this job if I was not as honest as I am. So, I’m sticking with honesty. Sorry if this was long… :wink:

You’d be surprised how far you can bend the truth if you really want to.

In Robert Jordan’s fantasy series ‘the wheel of time’ there are these women named the Aes Sedai who physically cannot lie (unless they become darkfriends… and hence part of the Black Ajah, but that’s a whole other issue :astonished: ). Anyways my point is that they get by, and anyone else can to if they start thinking the right way.

Some would call it sneaky, but what is worse, being sneaky, or lying flat out?

Mundane truth weaves itself similarly to the space-time pelicula in Einstein’s gravitational theory. That is, the heavier the object is, the more it bends the continuous around him.

Well either the sky appears to be blue to us, or it does not appear to be blue. You are only lying to yourself if you try to argue that blue is anything other than blue. It is blue because it can be distinguished from other colors.

Truth, as Truth, does not really bend. We only make appear as though it bends.

just my humble thoughts, anywhoo… :wink:

What do you understand by blue ?

wind in the past tense…

-Imp

While I appreciate all responses, I suspect there’s too much attention being directed toward the occupational aspect of my OP, perhaps due to my own mistake in formulating my inquiry. The issue of the resume is merely a preface. The issue begins here, if I may restate:

How about a round two?

I don’t know that one has much to do with the other. The first question asks me if I ‘truly think’ what I posted in the OP. The answer, of course, is yes. The second question asks me to presume that never in the history of the world has something happened. The answer is, of course not - or, more appropriately, I have no idea. What’s the connection?