I am going to make free energy machine soon.

Philosophy Forums Science, Technology, and Math
61

JJS,

During a sunny day the temp in the greenhouse can reach over 100 degrees even when below freezing outside. I have to vent or the heat would kill the plants.

Yeah, so I don’t have an unlimited budget. I live 45 degrees North on a city lot 60 wide by 150 feet deep. The house is 138 years old with a 12-12 pitch and has three gables so there isn’t much for roof space that faces south. The building is set fairly far forward on the property so given the zoning set-back requirements there isn’t much room in front of the house to take advantage of the southern exposure. The greenhouse is far back on the property and is just at the edge of the shadow line from the house on the shortest day of the year.

I do not have an ideal location, but make due with what I have. To the east the neighbors have a row of tall pine trees that block the sun until 10:30 in the morning and to the west there is a tall house set fairly close to the property line that blocks the sun past 3:00 PM. So I’ve got a short window of exposure to work with. As we get quite a bit of snow during the winter the greenhouse has an insulated hip wall two feet tall and it is in front and to the south where the heat sink is buried.

The idea was to store as much of the heat during the day as I can and release it back into the greenhouse during the night.

I asked about your demon gate because the description wiki provided sounded similar to the setup of the two spaces I am working with abstractly, the space of the heat sink and the space in the greenhouse. I thought a device that would control the flow of heat from one space to the other sounded sort of similar to the gate keeper in the thought experiment. You said you created the gate keeper for real and I had thought it might have an application, to “intelligently” transfer the heat from one space to the other.

The rest of the information you’ve provided is fairly straight forward and common to anyone who has spent any time with a project. There are successful greenhouses already but they have a more optimum location and conditions then I do. The original design was to take advantage of geothermal but when digging down to below the frost line for the footings the hole filled up with water because the sunniest part of the property also happens to be the lowest elevation of the property, so a bermed greenhouse wouldn’t work, cause each spring it would turn into a bermed swimming pool. If the buried heat trap gets wet, no big deal. Granted the heat sink likely isn’t large enough to store enough heat to get the greenhouse through the night. I didn’t calculate the size needed as I was just sort of tinkering around.

When we replaced the windows on our house I had all these glass panels that I didn’t want to end up in a dump, just yet. Like I said the whole project is being done on the cheap, I’d have no problems if I’d have paid for insulated poly-carbonate panels. That would help on the heat loss side of the equation.

But enough of distracting the conversation regarding free energy machines. It’s a gas to see people hoax a demonstration by hiding batteries in their supposed free energy machines or inside the electric motor housing itself. It’s almost like trying to figure out how a magic illusion is done.

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I was going to suggest a water pool for your heat storage, but wanted to hear more about the property first. Using plastic tarp to keep the water and a small pump to circulate it through the GH should help. Water stores heat better than just about anything common. As long as the water gets Sun, can’t evaporate, and isn’t touching a wind cover or wall, it can get quite hot and hold that heat pretty well. The stones that you already have can be a part of that system in the water. The water would merely transfer the heat in a more controlled way. Concave reflectors and/or your lenses should be sufficient to heat a great deal of water.

Hot water and air rise, so it is often easy to design a natural convection flow system that automatically circulates in the right direction for best use. Simply by altering the valves the same system could be used to cool the GH during hot days. Clever thermal valves can be made. Old car radiators can be used for heat exchangers (very handy if placed behind your lenses). This kind of thing doesn’t require special devices as much as clever flow regulating so that hot gets trapped below then rises at night (absorbing radiators mounted at the lowest point and radiating radiators just below first use level). Generally, I love playing with projects like yours.

To merge your project with the free energy idea, there is a different kind of “perpetual motion” device that you might play with in that it circulates water perpetually, although in your case, you would want to enhance it by adding solar heat. The basic idea is that if you have a column of water, the thermal energy will naturally settle at the top. Then by placing insulated aluminum rods from that hot top to a lower colder point down the column and exposing the upper and lower ends, the lower water has a constant heater, always hotter than itself. And the very top water has a constant cooler, always cooler than itself.

The trick is then to get the cooling top water and the heating bottom water to circulate. That is done by encouraging convection flow in only one direction from top to bottom and one from bottom to top.

By allowing that heated water to rise in only one path upward, the other paths begin to convect downward. Then to help the flow, slightly lower than the top, place a similar aluminum rod in a down-flow path such that the top of the second rod is cooler than the down flowing water it is touching, cooling that water even more and more than the opposite up flow path. And at the bottom of the second rod, the water is being heated slightly and drawn upward by the convection of the first rod’s water.

The end result (obviously needs pictures) is a constant flow of water from top to bottom and back. Normal atmospheric thermal energy provides the flow energy. But since it is always in the form of thermal energy, it doesn’t run down nor build up. If the water flow is tapped so as to provide mechanical energy, the whole column of water simply gets a little cooler and absorbs more energy from the outside atmosphere.

Just some quick pics:
Perpetual Fluid Flow.png

Perpetual Mechanical Flow.png

I haven’t actually tried that and of course, the flow would be quite slow unless using very large tanks. The whole device works as an automatic cooler for the top and automatic heater for the bottom. The mechanical output can then be used to concentrate the heat in a second stage. With each stage, the thermal energy gets higher and higher … all for free … after you build it :sunglasses:

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There are many types available.

Impressive in the way an illusionist can ‘manifest’ a ‘helicopter’ ‘out of thing air’.

I recently attended a live presentation of Masters of Illusion. What was the most entertaining was the comments of those around me. When someone seems to believes something ‘magic’ took place you don’t have to wonder why the gag is so popular. From the comments I heard it almost sounded like some people actually believe the illusion.

Some people clearly believe their senses more certainly then their intellect; regardless how much of a stretch of reason it requires.

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Oh, it is so easy to accuse. And ignorance makes it even easier. No matter what video is presented, anyone can think up ways to make a fake version of the same thing. And of course, "if it can be faked, obviously it IS faked. No one would ever be able to fake something if it was actually possible." I see as many faked debunk videos as fake videos.

When you don’t want other people to believe something, call it “paranoid”, “crackpot”, and/or, a “magic/video trick”. Then make a faked video to “prove” them wrong.

Take that first video for example. No doubt, you believe that has a hidden battery. So you call the man a liar right up front. The problem is that a simple a hidden battery wouldn’t do it, for several reasons.

1) A battery is DC, thus it requires a commutator (although not impossible to rig).

2) If you watch closely, the measured voltage exactly follows the coil contact with the nails. But the meter is still attached to the nails. Why would a battery stop supplying voltage to the nails, just because the coil fell off?

3) There are three videos of men doing that exact same project. None of them screw up the “magic trick”.

4) I am not finding any debunk videos for that one. Most of the debunk videos that I find are somewhat pathetic in their effort to defame the claim. But for this one, I can’t find even one of those.

So when it comes to blind and ignorant accusations against people doing things that seem a bit magical, despite my rather sharp willingness to debunk just about everything, I am not in such a rush.

In that one case, I can’t see what a monopole magnet would have to do with anything at all. And for that reason, I am suspicious. I can think of ways to make such a thing appear to work even if it didn’t by using things out of view, but then I can do that with anything, working or not.

So if you want to convince me, explain the functioning one way or another. From the proposed theory, I can determine if the theory is sensible. In this case, the only theory proposed at all was from the East Indian guy, who doesn’t understand magnetics. His video would take a lot of trickery to produce, although not entirely impossible. All of them proclaim that a monopole magnet would allow for perpetual motion. But why would it? Do you know?

Until someone can explain to me why a monopole magnet should allow for such things, I am not going to call anyone a liar over it. The people involved seem reasonably educated (unlike very many such videos). The trickery would have to be sophisticated, not simple. One of the three of the men doing it very probably would have fouled the trick. All three of them “master illusionists”? I don’t think so. I have heard no sensible debunk theory at all. I can’t think of a good debunk theory myself. And on top of it all, I know that such things are theoretically possible anyway.

You are the dogma preacher trying to curse a the “witch” for preaching against your holy doctrine.
Show me you theory, not your attitude.
A hidden battery is not sufficient.

Do you seriously think this guy is a “Master Illusionist”?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBMKZqNE7OE[/youtube]

65

Here is an interesting one, showing a degree of public scrutiny:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHW6b1aFPfU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aT18aDRJRM[/youtube]

At the Expo Award Ceremony:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AodLR87coc[/youtube]

And here is a typical debunker for that same concept:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJIz0aOu6ZM[/youtube]

The debunker says, "Well, I tried it and it didn’t work. I didn’t really think that it would".

66

Hey James,

Thanks for your interest in the greenhouse.

People are faking it. The first three of your examples have been debunked, and an example or two of people flat out admitting they’re pulling your leg came up in search of additional information. I’m not saying all are but the fact that any are does set the bar fairly high. So yeah, if it can be faked, I’ll start there. So now it’s up to who ever to prove it’s not. That is not unreasonable. I don’t buy a house on how it looks on video.

67

Show me the debunk. I don’t buy reputation without reason.

I have only seen one valid, not faked, debunk video out of very many faked ones. There are as many or more people faking the debunk videos than faking the claim videos. Someone telling you that they are faking it adds nothing to the balance of liars. They very actively lie on both sides.

So where is the debunk for that simple coil and monopole magnet demo?

If you are referring to this one:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wileGc1aQc[/youtube]
…that doesn’t count at all. As I said, I can make a fake, but that doesn’t mean that everyone is faking. And note that he didn’t make any of the measurements that the claimants made. His measurements would have revealed his battery. And also, none of the three boards show any sign of being cut open, unlike his debunker board. His is an obvious fake. If the others are faking, they are not doing so simple mindedly as he is.

Btw, this guy, to my surprise, does a pretty good job of explaining three types of magnet motors and what it takes to make them work. It is a three part video series.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEogsEfFXrg[/youtube]

I would have named the three types differently:
A) Pull-push

  • a) fixed
  • b) impulse
    B) Masked field
    C) V-gate
68

Well, I have a cow magnet that has a north and a south pole and I have a stack of four small neodymium magnets that also have north and south poles that I pulled out of a hard drive. I can stack the four magnets north down and snap them to the south pole of the cow magnet then slide the stack around the magnet until the stack is stuck to the north pole of the cow magnet and it really looks like the cow magnet has only a south pole.

So I need a mono-pole magnet to perform this experiment. Have everything else I need so I go out on the internet looking to find a mono-pole magnet, I find all kinds of references to mono-pole magnets in the sales of magnetic therapy but for some reason these mono-pole magnets do have poles but because you’re only ever suppose to use one of the poles, the side they put the green sticker on they call them mono-pole magnets. I also found all kinds of references to mono-pole magnets on Alibaba, seems all the magnets they sell are mono-pole magnets, but oddly they don’t tell you if they are North mono-poles or South mono-poles as the guy in the video seemed to imply, they have to be one or the other and there is no way to make them in odd numbers. They can’t be shipped near any other magnets or they would revert to having two poles.

Well I’m in a spot, I’m not compelled to believe a mono-pole can be made in that fashion. I find no evidence from any other source that a mono-pole magnet can be fashioned in such a way. I don’t have a means of cooling two bi-pole magnets to anything really cold and I don’t remember the fellow mentioning at what temperature this was suppose to take place so it would be extremely difficult to reproduce the method and insure his was duplicated, if his method did anything at all.

So, I don’t really know if one of the materials that is claimed required actually even really exists. I am skeptical. Could it have been done another way? Perhaps it really doesn’t require this magical material. Maybe it’s just an example of a motor a scout might build for an electricity merit badge except the batteries are hidden in the wood base.

69

Two thoughts:

1) Why not do exactly as the Indian guy did? Just put two neo magnets together, freeze them and carefully see if they do as he proclaims. That alone would surprise me. But I can’t say that such is impossible. If I had any neo magnets, I would go to at least that much trouble.

2) Why not build the rather simple device and try it with a normal neo magnet. I can’t see why being monopole would change anything at all. It seems to me that if it worked with either, it would work with the other.

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Walter Noon wrote and Acticle in Nuts and Volts magazine. nutsvolts.texterity.com/nutsvolt … 20III#pg38, the link is a free preview but you’ll get the picture.

I’d also trust what an encyclopedia has to say about monopoles.

71

Without being a member, the article only shows the device, not saying anything about it. I am not going to subscribe to Nuts and Bolts, just to see what they have to say.

And as far as the monopole, there is the concept of a monopole magnet and there is the effect of a monopole magnet. Those are two different things. What is being demonstrated is the effect of monopole magnetism, not necessarily an actual monopole magnet. The effect is what is desired (apparently). An actual monopole device is probably impossible, as I have long since assumed (knowing what causes magnetism).

Still I have seen nothing debunking it, yet.

Induced Electromagnetic Spin.png

That is basically what I am thinking. As the coil spins, entering and exiting the magnetic field causes the coil to become an electromagnet. The poles of the magnet would reverse as the windings passed the center of the magnet, causing a pushing of a built up north pole and a pulling of the built up south pole (for a north fixed magnet). Again, I don’t see how being a “monopole” or an “effective monopole” would change anything.

72

Here are a few more fun ones:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HV9YWmGf8g[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVSM__R1bqs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNqq6YgdGX4[/youtube]

Do you have any machining tools?

73

No.

74

.

75

A few more:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAchuS8SyU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYtfq6qRrh8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A2xBqQi0y8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc[/youtube]

Still think that free energy machines are anything new?

76

Back to magnets:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7butL04wWE[/youtube]

Care to debunk that one?

77

This is a typical claimant vs debunker pair of videos:

The claimant:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGPnxLSgnUI[/youtube]

The debunker:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp9cFrZWneI[/youtube]

Anyone can make a fake version of anything. This debunker uses a small wire to carry a charge over to his faked machine. He then claims that the original claimant did that same thing. But if you watch the original claimant, there is very little, if any opportunity for a wire connection because the machine is picked up, turned, and handled while in motion.

The point is that just because you can make a fake, doesn’t mean that your accusation is true. In fact, it implies that you are the liar, not the claimant. Debunk videos prove nothing for or against unless they can show that they have done exactly the same in every respect. And even then, they only contribute the possibility of the claimant being a fraud.

78

Hello James,

So, the first attempt failed. I used a 3/8 inch neo magnet and a 1/2 inch coil mounted in the crotchs of two broken off needle eyes. Didn’t do anything but sit there. Although when I blow a stream of air across the top half of the coil it spun like crazy.

Thought maybe my wire wasn’t insulated which would mess up the coil. So I checked for continuity and the wire is insulated. I scrapped off the insulation and got continuity from one lead of the coil across to the other.

Now the property of a magnetic field being generated is dependent on current flow, how do you expect to develop a flow of electrons that could generate a current in an open circuit? Because the coil is an open circuit it seems rather unlikely a magnetic field would ever be generated in the coil. If there is no current in the coil then there is no magnetic field the coil is generating. Open circuit, no current, no current, no magnetic field to be generated, no magnetic field being generated, so the copper coil isn’t going to react to the stationary magnetic field at all.

And just for good measure I went out and bought 4 new neo magnets, stuck 2 of them in the freezer and let them cool down. Separated them and they behaved no differently then any other magnet, and I built a second attempt; new coil: this one 1.25" the new magnets were 1". This time I created the cradle for the coil to run in, out of bent steel T-pins. Mounted the pins in a chunk of balsa wood so I could push the pins in by hand. Tried each supposed pole of the mono-pole process.

Again the result was zip. Dead still coil armature. Even after I manually introduced some spin by blowing across the top of the coil. Spun like crazy when blowing it, but it never kept going. So yeah I followed their example and instructions, problem is I don’t think they are doing just what they say they are, kind of like an illusionist. :shrug:

So if you saw an illusionist performing the famous saw a lady if half gig and they told you “exactly” what they were doing. Would you attempt to reproduce the illusion using just their instructions?

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Have you reproduced the result?

80

A 1/2" coil would have been too small to trust to overcome friction issues.

What gauge wire and how many turns? Those play into the flux density issues (not that it is still relevant).

Any conductor passing through a magnetic field, cutting the field lines, will induce a current even if that current only travel to the end of the conductor and stops. Ignition coils display what happens when the field is strong enough yet there is to complete path - you get a spark jumping the gap. So if the coil is moving, there WILL be a magnetic flux and associate current, although temporary and limited. Magnetic flux does not accept rejection.

Much better coil. If the neo magnets didn’t behave differently by repelling to attracting both said of an ordinary magnetic, then the rest wouldn’t work. I was only asking that you test the monopole magnet making process. I wasn’t expecting you to go to the trouble of building the rest of the thing, especially if the monopole bit didn’t work.

Now we have another curiosity: What is being sold online as “monopole magnets”?

I had first thought about a fan being off screen, but I ran into doubts about that. First I think that the coil would have to have more air flow on one side than the other in order to spin so well and a fan wouldn’t do that very well, but maybe. But then also the other two guys doing it showed no signs of a fan doing the work. One holds it up in the air and turns it such that you can see the bottom.

I was saying that if you are going to make a debunk video, then in your video, you must exactly replicate every detail of what they did. If the guy picks up the device and turns it all around such that you can see the sides and that there is no wire attached, then your video much do that same thing while also using the trick that you are proposing.

Each person doing this project could have their own little trick. Perhaps one uses a battery with a commutator scraping (although how he got 2.5 volts would be interesting to know). Another perhaps uses a fan. But without the actual proposed monopole magnet, nothing really counts because as I said, I have no idea why a monopole magnet would have any effect in any direction. So I just wanted to see the monopole magnet.

And no, I haven’t tried the project because I am not sufficiently inspired to go out and get neodymium or monopole magnets. Instead, I am still working on your greenhouse issue.

Without using the magnetic motor concepts being discussed, an obvious way to go if they work (and someone’ apparently does), I am thinking in terms of converting the microcosmic random chaos of air molecules into macroscopic motion through the use of magnets. I have a few ideas, but they imply very large and weak mechanisms, probably insufficient to do the work that you would need.

Fundamentally one can (as my 1972 project KD did - a little similar to “Tesla’s valve”) convert the molecular action of a gas into an ordered flow, “chaos to harmony”. Such provides endless useful energy flow merely from the thermal energy in the air … which gets returned to the air. The trick is trying to do it without microscopic tools ot exotic materials. I know of one way, but that one ends up with a huge mechanism to merely produce a very small endless stream of mechanical power. I am not as inventive as I use to be, but I still would like to think more about anything that would accomplish the task without the need of exotic equipment or materials.