infinite and finite space.

nothing does not exist so all that exists must be something so no matter where you go or what you do you will always see something and thus energy and space.

therefore the space and energy in the universe must be infinite. (jss rm)

this is a logical conclusion that predicts the infinite nature of space, by necessity. however how can something be finite and infinite at the same time is beyond me.

does not infinite mean infinite +1? how can something be infinite and not be ever increasing?

so i came to a solution. perhaps the universe is like a circle, if you travel enough to the east then you will end up in the west.

anyone else has another solution?

A fish sees water everywhere and concludes that it must be infinite.

The infinite is an “inconceivable” concept.
It seems to be understood, but it is not.

I think “end” but when I try to put “without” in front of “end”, my mind stops.

The infinite is necessary, but there is not. And we can know only what is here.

“Increasing” has nothing to do with it.
It is already there and always has been.
“Infinite” merely means “has no end”.

Since the number Pi has an infinite number of decimals involved, how can a circle ever be formed?
The “infinite number of decimals” are already there.
They are not assembled one after another.

The same is true for the expanse of the universe.
It is not being assembled.

beyong the water there is land which is something, and down enough there is the floor which is something. it is still something regardless of what it is.

it is easier to think it is always there and discard it, but this does not make sense how can something be infinite +1 and not be increasing?

pi is not a good explanation since it is infinitely small, this is infinitely big, and anyway there no such thing as a perfect circle.

Really? Do I need to cut up your food for you?

i believe this is not worth answering.

First “infinite + 1” doesn’t really make sense.
“Infinite” means endless. “Endless + 1” means what?
That is like saying, “round + 1”.

And then if it is already endless/infinite, how can it be increasing?

true. however if energy is infinite why is not the universe uniform?

If you have a volume of 10 cbm and put 10 joules into it, you have an average of 1 joule per cbm.
If you have a volume of 1000 cbm and put 1000 joules into it, you have an average of 1 joule per cbm.
If you have a volume of infinite cbm and put infinite joules into it, you have an average of 1 joule per cbm.

But now is there anything to say that each volume of 1 cbm has 1 joule,
or rather that merely the total average is 1 joule per cbm?

Why would it be uniform?

space is determined by energy, energy creates space so why would space be bigger than energy?

Oh okay, now I think I see what you are saying…

Again, in absolute Euclidean space, energy does not create the space. In Relativity spacetime the energy creates space but only relative to the observer (a much more confusing paradigm).

The person in the low energy density space would see the high density region of space as small. The person in the high energy density space would see the low energy space as large (I think I got that right… ). The Euclidean absolutist would see them as the same size, merely more or less dense (along with those within them).

Space isn’t exactly visible… but anyways why must there be energy beyond the immediate universe that is expanding? Why can’t there just be a void?

That’s actually a known potential solution, a curved universe which is all there is but is not infinite.

atlasoftheuniverse.com/bigbang.html
I’ll see if I can find a better one.

an expanding universe doesnt make sense with infinity. only finite things can expand. everything has alot of wholes.

No, you don’t understand the expansion then. It is a separation of galaxies from each other in terms of distance. The totality of the dimension of space is not necessarily getting larger, but the known universe and known matter is spreading out further and further at an exponential yet consistent rate.

I said a curved universe that is not infinite. Though you are also incorrect about what you say here which WWW 3 is explaining. But your response here makes no sense in relation to my post.

I’d like to hear someone’s rational description of a “curved universe”.
And by “rational”, I mean “step-by-step”, “piece-by-piece” logical progression as opposed to the mere “well, it’s all bent up and twisted like them scintusts say”.

Did you ever see the matrix revolutions? When Neo is in the train station and he goes one way and comes out the other and ends up in the same spot he left at?

That theory basically says if we travel in a “straight line” long enough (say in a spaceship) we will eventually come back to the same point where we started at. Which means, space/time is “curved” in a manner that will result in that condition.