You’re dodging the question…
What then is “green enough”?
Methane energy. But people don’t use it cause its not as energy efficient as gasoline. But its far better than solar panels for the environment. Methane power actually cleans up the environment, solar panels make the environment worse.
Second thing I was talking about new energy innovations, which Big Oil does not want. Innovations that are not mainstream, thus there are no examples of what it would be. It seems strange to me that society has all this AI yet we are still running on dead dinos… wtf… nobody can invent anything besides 1800s dead dinos gasoline…? Wtf. Maybe Satyr is right and creativity is gone from society.
China is actively pursuing methane gas projects, driven by its 2023 Methane Emission Control Action Plan, focusing on capturing coal mine gas, utilizing livestock waste for biogas, increasing methane recovery in oil/gas, and developing advanced methane-fueled rockets, aiming to meet targets for utilization and emissions reduction across energy, agriculture, and waste sectors through policy, technology, and international cooperation, despite ongoing coal expansion. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Key Project Areas & Initiatives:
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Coal Mines: Targets include collecting 6 billion cubic meters of coal mine gas annually by 2025 and reducing the concentration limit for mine gas emissions. Projects aim to convert captured methane into electricity, benefiting safety and providing clean energy.
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Agriculture (Biogas): Promoting biogas digesters for household and large-scale farms to convert manure into clean cooking fuel, reducing wood/coal burning and creating fertilizer, with goals to reach 80% utilization by 2025.
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Oil & Gas: The China Oil and Gas Methane Alliance works to lower methane intensity in natural gas production, with plans to align with international standards by 2030.
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Waste Management: Increasing the re-utilization rate of urban household waste and improving harmless disposal of urban sludge.
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Space Technology: Private firms like Landspace are developing methane-fueled rockets, a cleaner alternative for space launches, demonstrating advanced propulsion. [1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
Policy Framework:
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Methane Emission Control Action Plan (2023): A national strategy to monitor, report, and control methane from energy, agriculture, and waste, emphasizing resource utilization and improved technology.
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14th Five-Year Plan: Establishes frameworks for methane reduction in key sectors. [2, 3, 4]
Challenges & Context:
- While pushing methane reduction, China’s massive coal expansion presents a significant challenge, requiring robust mitigation measures alongside increased methane capture. [5, 10]
AI responses may include mistakes.
[1] https://www.igsd.org/china-releases-methane-emissions-control-action-plan/
[2] https://www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/china-methane-mitigation-market
[3] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adn4233
[4] https://dialogue.earth/en/climate/what-does-chinas-new-methane-plan-mean-for-the-climate/
[5] https://chinaproject.harvard.edu/news/2024/12/ending-high-emission-coal-key-chinas-methane-reduction
[6] https://www.cooleffect.org/project/sichuan-china
[7] https://www.adb.org/results/turning-deadly-methane-gas-clean-energy
[8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE1QsSDvxMY
[9] https://www.igsd.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2023-CHINA-METHANE-EMISSIONS-CONTROL-ACTION-PLAN.pdf
Use this “Philosophy” forum as an example…
Westerners are very backward, regressive, stupid, many flaws despite claiming to be “Progressive”. They’re liars and obsessed with Western lies. They cannot break free from them, or “The Matrix” blue-pills. They’re holding us back in everyway.
I do suspect and fear, that an American “dictator” or “tyrant” may be the only way forward for ideals such as yours–real progress into the future. Otherwise, the alternative, is regression, more backwardness, infighting, civil war, eventual defeat and humiliation to other countries and peoples who WILL move forward without US… (like China)
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Dubbed.. or his AI stand-in. 
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Pitting countries against countries when we could all live in harmonious peace, the world is of our constructed-making, after-all.. we don’t have to go down any road if we don’t want to/we don’t have to live this [constructed/destructive] way.
IOW, downscale the world.
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It does seem that America has to get with the environmental-eco program.. mini power-stations fuelled by household/manufacturing waste etc. that will then supply renewable energy to local areas.. we’ve got them, and methane energy, in many UK towns and cities.
The planet needs a new/sustainable way forward, instead of fighting over energy resources and raw minerals. F’ing primitive sh*t! 
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Primitive is better than nothing. Oh, and that graphic you attached.. it’s 2014 data. A lot has happened since then bud..
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There are other easily-implemented aesthetic renewable town-based options, compared to the unsightly blot-on-the-landscape government-bankrupting resource-draining land/sea-grabbing solutions such as wind-turbines solar-panels nuclear reactors etc.
Oh, and that data you provided, is also pretty irrelevant, let me tell you why..
China has a population of 1.48 billion. The U.S. has a population of 347 million. China basically has 4 times the U.S. population.
A better way to search for relative polluting power would be by using “per capita”, i.e. average per person.
Also.. China is the manufacturing powerhouse of the world. That tends to result in high CO2 emissions.
China is more likely to make progress in green energy than most other nations, especially Canada and the U.S.
What are they? How much energy do they produce?
China has gone through quite a transformation since 2000 or so, it’s entire society has shifted up a class or two, and power consumption is much higher than it was, many people who didn’t even have access to electricity before now have it. The Chinese have been working very hard to meet that demand, by using any technology available, usually the cleanest they can get their hands on.
They are also under international pressure, even though they pollute much less per person than Canada and the U.S.
Vast regions of solar panels isn’t ideal, I’ll give you that, but it’s better than the coal they were burning before. Also, nuclear is very clean energy by any metric and is the most efficient way we know of to generate power.
You know good and well (just from conversations on forums like this one) that there are many people who are woefully lacking in both imagination and a conscience.
Furthermore, seeing how those particular images have been around since 1969, they were clearly not enough to instill any lasting guilt, compassion, or empathy into the general American psyche to keep the majority of Americans from continuing to “look the other way” as our elected leaders…
(using our tax dollars and our tacit approval because we all benefit from the stolen booty)
…continued (continue) to murder countless other humans in the Middle East, South America (and God knows where else).
Indeed, the depth of American’s general obliviousness (i.e., lack of concern) of the harm we cause to our fellow humans around the globe was highlighted in 1996 when the soon to be Secretary of State - Madeleine Albright - stated on national television that she felt that the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children (via sanctions) was “…worth the price…” of whatever goal America was seeking to achieve at the time.
I apologize for constantly reminding everyone of that insane remark, but just let the low conscious, cold-blooded depravity of that statement sink in,…
…and then realize that it pretty much epitomizes the general (white) American attitude towards all other races and ethnicities.
And it’s not because they (whites) are inherently mean or evil,…
…no, it’s because they are literally sleepwalking through life and are simply not awake enough (not conscious enough) to see past these facades (past these bodies we temporarily inhabit) in order to recognize that our eternal souls are all identical in form and purpose,…
…and that we should be lifting each other up in the spirit of unity and wholeness, instead of withdrawing into isolated groups and making war on each other.
Anyway, if you don’t think my method of attempting to “slap them awake” by subjecting them to graphic (and grizzly) images of the dead children they’ve (we’ve) helped to murder, then I’m open to suggestions for other ways.
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I remember that, and I was amazed anyone could be such a ghoul. I think people just see the numbers without realising every single digit represents a human child.
This is also what I believe, and I believe there is a price to pay not only for evil, but also indifference.
Hopefully humans will evolve at some point, instead of focusing on raw “intelligence” without compassion, which really gets us nowhere.
I’m not even sure that would be enough. Maybe if you took them to a war zone and showed them the bodies first hand that might have an effect. Some people can look at photos like that and just turn off their emotions, some never had them turned on in the first place. I’m glad I’m not one of those people, even though the images hit me like a sledgehammer.
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Setting aside the fact that China has four times as many mouths to feed compared to the USA, and that America had no qualms about being the largest polluter on the planet in the decades leading up to its recent attempts at trying to curtail its output of industrial pollution,…
…try to behold the sheer gall of Americans complaining about China being a significant source of pollution caused by manufacturing when, after Googling the question:
“How much manufacturing does America outsource to China?”…
…Google’s AI Overview stated the following…
…estimates from various business organizations provide a clear picture: tens of thousands of American companies have established a business presence in the country, many of which involve manufacturing operations.
Indeed, even the subject of this thread (“IQ45”) relies heavily on China’s manufacturing system to produce the wares he peddles to his cult.
Again, according to AI Overview…
“…a substantial portion of his commercial and licensed products is manufactured in China…”
And don’t get me started on the idiocy of people complaining about solar panels “…carpeting entire ecosystems…” as if the complainee was somehow personally affected (offended) by the eyesore-ness of it all.
Something tells me that futureone might not like the idea of a “Dyson Sphere” either. 
It’s the whole “lesser of two evils” argument. Some people just choose the lesser of two evils, but others refuse to choose either because the “ideal” solution doesn’t exist. The truth of the matter is that they’re not helping at all by being stubborn and idealistic, they have plenty of negative to say about the “lesser evil”, but have absolutely no realistic solutions of their own to offer. I’ll just take the lesser evil until something better comes along. Solar panels can be removed and replaced when better technology emerges, so can wind farms.
Ah but then I would have to agree with him.
If a Dyson Sphere was called “Dyson Nodes” instead, then it would sound more feasible. But the “sphere”? What would it be constructed from? To do so would require more matter as building material than otherwise exists in our solar system, the Sun is pretty big..
And what would the method of energy transfer be from the sphere to the recipients? The way I see it, our star outputs huge amounts of energy and much of it reaches Earth, but we’re just still pretty primitive at capturing it. It’s enough energy to fuel all life on Earth, that’s got to be enough..
If we could learn to harness what’s already there a bit better, I don’t think we would need a sphere. Maybe a vast swarm of drones which fly as close as possible to the Sun and charge up with energy. Then a series of “energy freighters” can go and collect that energy and transport it to wherever needed?
EDIT - Sorry off topic 
EDIT2 - What I’m describing is a “Dyson Swarm”, I was too lazy to read.
Well, I guess we needn’t worry about it, because according to what is called the “Kardashev Scale” we are a long way away from reaching the level of intelligence and mastery over our environment where the theoretical Dyson Sphere is doable.
Anyway, I was just messin’ with futureone - playing on his anime/science fiction leanings in order to point out (in jest) what a gargantuan “eyesore” a Dyson Shere (the ultimate clean energy source) would be compared to a few measly solar panels.
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Solar panels aren’t a viable coal/gas replacement. They aren’t an eyesore. They occlude grass and plants from getting light. Americans often have solar setups on roofs or in the desert where it doesn’t matter. What RealUn showed was a bunch of solar panels engulfing mountains and its going to harm the ecosystem when used like that.
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According to Google’s AI overview (paraphrased by me)…
China’s largest array of solar panels is called the Talatan Solar Park. The Talatan Solar Park, is located in Gonghe County on the Tibetan Plateau in China…The Talatan Solar Park occupies approximately 0.017% (less than two-hundredths of one percent) of the total area of the Tibetan Plateau.
I then asked the following question:
Me:
What then is the percentage of the Tibetan Plateau’s ecosystem that remains untouched, pristine, and unaffected by the presence of the Talatan Solar Park?
To which AI Overview responded with this:
AI Overview:
In 2026, the Talatan Solar Park affects a negligible portion of the Tibetan Plateau’s total area, while the plateau’s broader ecosystem remains subject to varying degrees of human activity and protection.
Scale of Impact
Areal Percentage: The Talatan Solar Park covers roughly 162 square miles, which is approximately 0.017% of the plateau’s 970,000 square miles.
Localized Ecological Change: Rather than being “untouched,” the land occupied by the park has been intentionally modified. Research indicates these panels act as windbreaks and reduce soil evaporation, which has actually improved local ecological health in a formerly degraded desert region by allowing vegetation and microbes to return.
So, apparently, the presence of the solar panels (at least in this situation) has helped the ecosystem.
I guess the real question is,…
…if industrial pollution is truly hastening global warming…
(assuming global warming is indeed a real thing)
…then how much ecological damage do you think is going to occur if humans don’t use every tool in their arsenal to reduce industrial pollution?
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AI said solar is harmful to forests, but I guess they figured out how to install it in a certain way to minimize harm.
Solar is not a viable gas/coal replacement, as I said earlier. I asked the Ai if they were dictator would they replace gas/coal with solar and they said they wouldn’t.
The main point in my discussion with RealUn was that solar is not a viable gas/coal replacement. That solar is harmful to forests, is just a side issue.
Switching entirely from gas and coal to pure solar power has significant problems that make it unviable as a sole energy source, so as hypothetical dictator, I wouldn’t mandate it.
Key Viability Issues
Solar’s intermittency requires massive battery storage and grid overhauls to handle nights, clouds, and seasonal variations, which current technology can’t scale globally without enormous costs and resource demands. Land requirements for utility-scale solar compete with agriculture and ecosystems, as seen in forest debates, amplifying habitat loss if not carefully sited.
Supply Chain Constraints
Manufacturing enough panels demands rare earth minerals and energy-intensive processes, creating mining pollution and geopolitical vulnerabilities—China dominates 80%+ of production. Recycling infrastructure lags, risking toxic waste accumulation over 25-30 year panel lifespans.
My original point being, that humans haven’t been innovating anything, and then RealUn says that “china has been innovating energy” when all they have been doing is using old solar panels tech, its not innovating technology. All I was saying is we need improved energy tech so we are less reliant on gas, coal and solar.
Solar isn’t going to save society or fix this chart:
I also suspect that, most human beings on this earth, are potassium deficient, not enough eating of spinach and bananas, which causes lack of mental clarity. For instance, if I had to guess I would say Ecmandu for instance does not consume the DV of potassium.