Iraq

[W.J_Wilczek]

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[Peter_Kropotkin]

Actually it doesn’t take a great philosopher to know this.

The real issue is to understand that Iraq is in a civil war.
That is the real issue. Bush lite is lying even here.
There is no foreign insurgency here. there are very few
foreigners in Iraq. Now what about the civil war part.
Look at where some of the car bombs have gone off.
At mosques of different Muslim sects during prayer time.
That is a civil war and a clue as to who is fighting and why.

Iraq. Where the lies never end.
Iraq. Arabic word for Vietnam.
Iraq. A shameful place where thousands died for some lies.

Kropotkin

[aspacia]

@W.J. Wilczek

It would take a great philosopher to know all the causes of the Iraq war,

A recent article in BBC’s Newsline (name may be incorrect) claims the King George and his cronies were planning to invade Iraq for oil before 9/11. I am waiting to see if the report is accurate. I do not trust the media or politicians.

[W.J_Wilczek]

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[aspacia]

@W.J. Wilczek

There is an old army saying that: “Proper prior planning prevents piss-poor performance.” Given the experience of the humiliating defeat in Vietnam within living memory of both our military and civilian leadership, it is nothing short of astonishing that America should be involved in yet another limited war with no legitimate objective, without proper planning, and with no exit strategy. Will history repeat itself again? Will President Bush - as did President Nixon before him - be forced to declare “Peace With Honor”?

We are starting to withdraw our troops at the moment. Remember, Powell told Bush “If you break it, you own it.” Bush, similar to Hitler, did not listen to the military mind.

In The Prince, Niccolo Machiavelli maintained that a state that is easily won is not easily held because the enemy still remains everywhere about the occupier; whereas a state that is hard won is easily ruled as the enemy has been destroyed.

True. Bush, Cheney and Rummy really do not have military experience. Powell did, and they did not listen to him and forced him out. What a bunch of idiots.

Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz - the architects of the war in Iraq - both profess to be students of Machiavelli. Apparently, they didn’t learn their lessons well; and President Bush would have done well to have had better advisors.

Bush is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Gorgias]

These days I am starting to doubt that this is about Oil. What I think Iraq is, at a semi-sub-conscious level, about is the the very long war between the East and the West, between the Christians and the Muslims.

I have little evidence to offer, just something to consider.

[W.J_Wilczek]

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[Future_Man]

aspacia, im sure you dont trust noam chomsky, but he said there was a memo, he knew the number and date, i can find a link if youd like. it was clearly suggesting a focus on iraq and a search for reasons to invade, mentioning the massive amount of oil.

@gorgias

These days I am starting to doubt that this is about Oil. What I think Iraq is, at a semi-sub-conscious level, about is the the very long war between the East and the West, between the Christians and the Muslims.

I have little evidence to offer, just something to consider.

what are you talking about? the fact that america started hating the middle east after 911 is what led to our invasion? our legitimate paranoia?

what about bush saying in his state of the union address that saddam was trying to buy uranium in niger after every other international authority had been trying to tell him that it was a forgery? was that a product of his legitimate paranoia or even, perhaps, his justifiable stretching of the credibility of evidence in the interests of defending america at whatever potentially unethical cost?

i dont think stretching the credibility of evidence (apparently very far) is ever justifiable when you are talking about killing 30,000 people. and 30,000 was their official estimate months ago. im sure its actually at least 100,000, probably 200,000. 500,000 children died the first time around, so i think it makes sense to believe that many more will die this time.

if we were really scared about being nuked, why didnt we invade north korea, who we know for sure has nukes or will soon? if kim really hates us as much as it seems, what makes anybody think that he wont sell his stuff to terrorists just like saddam? the fact that he isnt muslim? what does that have to do with hating america?

gorg, when you say ‘these days youre starting to’, that seems to suggest that you once believed it was about oil, and new evidence has changed your mind. what recent developments have led you to believe its not about the oil? the fact that our retarded govt still hasnt made a profit? that does kind of call the oil into question,

but there cannot be the tiniest slightest doubt that halliburton has made so incredibly much money, they were not the lowest bidder as there was no bidding, only the selection of halliburton as the supplier of many various supplies.

and dick cheney, as a direct result of the iraq business, DID make a ton of money. his retirement package included money that will increase if halliburton did better (20% of profits in 2004 or something like that). there was no search for the lowest bidder AND lots of if not everybody in iraq talks about how ridiculously expensive and crappy the halliburton products are. that really sucks. that makes it really hard not to hate the government and even harder to ever trust them again.

[aspacia]

FM,

Please supply valid support for your claims. I mean valid support and not some left-leaning anarchist.

I dismisssed Chomsky, 15 years ago.

[W.J_Wilczek]

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[aspacia]

@W.J. Wilczek

To win the battle requires good tactics well executed; to win the war requires a winning strategy and the will to prosecute it to the finish. Tactics are for the advantage of the moment; strategy is for the duration. It is indeed possible to lose all the battles but still win the war. Likewise, it is possible to win every battle, and yet lose the war. Thus it is better to have a good strategy than the best tactics.

President Bush has neither good tactics nor any strategy other than to “stay the course” - a course set for defeat and, ultimately, disaster.

Ah, another military mind; good you know the game. Yes, you are correct regarding strategies and tactics. Bush, hum, actually Rummy has started to revise the strategies and tactics. The oil spill concept. Pacify an area, and then station Iraqi, not US troops there to develop positive relationships, build schools, utilities, hospitals in the villages and towns. This may work.

Also, many media sources do not understand who the militants are and believe them to be from other lands. Most of the Iraqis hate Saddam, it is the minority Sunnis who are pissed as they lost power.

Bush thought we would be greeted as liberators, the idiot didn’t do his research nor does he understand what most in the Middle-East believe. I mean just look at the recent Hamas win, despite our pumping in $ to the corrupt Fatah. Right, and many claim that most Palestinians are peacefull folks who want peace with Israel, then they vote in a party sworn to erradicate Israel. Yes, I know Fatah is corrupt, but wait for the economic fallout. They will again blame Israel for all their woes.

With regards,

aspacia

With regards,

aspacia

[W.J_Wilczek]

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[aspacia]

Hi W.J. Wilczek,

Yep, my significant other and I were having a bash Rummy fest when he decided to close all the nuclear sub. bases except one. What an idiot, have all nuclear subs in one base and it be hit by a terrorist attack.

I didn’t know regarding the rest. The many has zero military experience and he is in charge of defense??? Thanks for the information. I am here to learn.

Do you have a link?

With regards,

aspacia