Is anyone here a recovering atheist?

[FreeSpirit1983]

@pood

@FreeSpirit1983

@pood

And there is no contemporaneous accounts of Jesus’s existence. None. Which is odd considering that even in the mid-Roman empire, without TV, radio, the internet or newspapers, word still would have widely spread about someone who healed the sick, raised the dead, turned water into wine, fed the masses with a single loaf and fish, walked on water, and resurrected after crucifixion.

Maia is correct that all these gods are myths, but as I tried to explain to FreeSpirt without success, “myth” does not mean lie and is not a dirty world. Myths are narratives or meta-narratives that we use to explain the world, and ourselves, to ourselves.

With respect to the bible, people like FreeSpirit and, to be fair, many atheists, confuse logos with mythos. The bible and other religious traditions are mythos and not logos.

“I do not know, nor have I heard of, any trained historian or archaeologist who has doubts about his existence,” he adds. With the weight of all this evidence, for Meyers “those who deny the existence of Jesus are like the deniers of climate change.”

google.com/amp/s/www.bbvaop … s-yes/amp/

And once again you dodge my point. If Jesus existed, it does not follow that he was divine or performed miracles. You seem to think, or want to argue, that if scholars believe he existed, they also believe that he was divine and performed miracles. I dare so no trained historian or archaeologist thinks that, unless they are Christian and thus biased to believe that.

I believe in Jesus’s miracles because they were written about by historical sources.

Even Jesus’s enemies conceded he performed miracles; they just said they were works of sorcery.

I do wonder, again, why are you so interested in this topic as an atheist?

Do you ever think your world view could be wrong and you’re missing out on the most important truth there is??

[pood]

Jesus’s “miracles” were not written about by contemporaneous sources. Do you understand that? Do you even know what “contemporaneous” means?

[FreeSpirit1983]

@pood

Jesus’s “miracles” were not written about by contemporaneous sources. Do you understand that? Do you even know what “contemporaneous” means?

Answer my question, you empty atheist.

[iambiguous]

Actually, I am a recovering Christian who would very much like to bump into an argument able to persuade me to note that I am a recovering atheist.

After all, with morality here and now and immortality there and then on the line, sure, I’d like to be a true believer again.

A God, the god, any God that might allow me to reject a fractured and fragmented “I” that will one day topple over into the abyss that is oblivion.

On the other hand, among other things, the argument would have to revolve around…

1] a demonstration that in fact this God does exist. After all, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of Gods out there that are said to exist. Why yours?
2] I would need to know how you connect the dots existentially between morality here and now and immortality there and then. The part that revolves around Judgment Day.
3] I would need to be apprised of how you address the question of theodicy.

[FreeSpirit1983]

@iambiguous

Actually, I am a recovering Christian who would very much like to bump into an argument able to persuade me to note that I am a recovering atheist.

After all, with morality here and now and immortality there and then on the line, sure, I’d like to be a true believer again.

A God, the god, any God that might allow me to reject a fractured and fragmented “I” that will one day topple over into the abyss that is oblivion.

On the other hand, among other things, the argument would have to revolve around…

1] a demonstration that in fact this God does exist. After all, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of Gods out there that are said to exist. Why yours?
2] I would need to know how you connect the dots existentially between morality here and now and immortality there and then. The part that revolves around Judgment Day.
3] I would need to be apprised of how you address the question of theodicy.

Just ask Jesus if He is real. Be patient!

He will come.

[FreeSpirit1983]

@pood

Jesus’s “miracles” were not written about by contemporaneous sources. Do you understand that? Do you even know what “contemporaneous” means?

I do.

That doesn’t mean Jesus’s miracles were myths.

I guarantee you don’t hold other historical figures to that type of standard.

Now please stop following me around and go build an altar to yourself.

[Pedro_I_Rengel (PZR)]

Me.

I think we should stop calling them atheists, like some goddamn academic word for a plant, and call them what they are: godless.

[pood]

@FreeSpirit1983

@pood

Jesus’s “miracles” were not written about by contemporaneous sources. Do you understand that? Do you even know what “contemporaneous” means?

I do.

That doesn’t mean Jesus’s miracles were myths.

I guarantee you don’t hold other historical figures to that type of standard.

Now please stop following me around and go build an altar to yourself.

Please stop lying that I worship myself, you god-besotted narcissist.

It means that there are no eyewitness accounts of anyone named Jesus performing miracles. Therefore there is no evidence of any kind that he, in fact, performed miracles, and no direct evidence that he even existed.

[FreeSpirit1983]

@pood

@FreeSpirit1983

@pood

Jesus’s “miracles” were not written about by contemporaneous sources. Do you understand that? Do you even know what “contemporaneous” means?

I do.

That doesn’t mean Jesus’s miracles were myths.

I guarantee you don’t hold other historical figures to that type of standard.

Now please stop following me around and go build an altar to yourself.

Please stop lying that I worship myself, you god-besotted narcissist.

It means that there are no eyewitness accounts of anyone named Jesus performing miracles. Therefore there is no evidence of any kind that he, in fact, performed miracles, and no direct evidence that he even existed.

That’s not true.

Also, you never answered my question:

“Do you ever think your world view could be wrong and you’re missing out on the most important truth there is??”

[Maia]

@FreeSpirit1983

@pood

Jesus’s “miracles” were not written about by contemporaneous sources. Do you understand that? Do you even know what “contemporaneous” means?

I do.

That doesn’t mean Jesus’s miracles were myths.

I guarantee you don’t hold other historical figures to that type of standard.

Now please stop following me around and go build an altar to yourself.

Do you believe the stories of Buddha or Muhammad, or any number of other figures, performing miracles? Presumably you do, if you believe that they are not held to the same standard as Jesus.

[FreeSpirit1983]

@Maia

@FreeSpirit1983

@pood

Jesus’s “miracles” were not written about by contemporaneous sources. Do you understand that? Do you even know what “contemporaneous” means?

I do.

That doesn’t mean Jesus’s miracles were myths.

I guarantee you don’t hold other historical figures to that type of standard.

Now please stop following me around and go build an altar to yourself.

Do you believe the stories of Buddha or Muhammad, or any number of other figures, performing miracles? Presumably you do, if you believe that they are not held to the same standard as Jesus.

Mohammad was a pedophile warlord. Not my favorite.

Buddha never claimed to be God nor did He resurrect from the dead.

Jesus is unique.

[Maia]

@FreeSpirit1983

Mohammad was a pedophile warlord. Not my favorite.

Buddha never claimed to be God nor did He resurrect from the dead.

Jesus is unique.

Muhammad, in addition to being both those things, also, according to contemporary reports from those who were with him, stuck his hand up into the sky and split the moon in half. Do you believe this to be true?

[iambiguous]

The argument I am after:

1] a demonstration that in fact this God does exist. After all, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of Gods out there that are said to exist. Why yours?
2] I would need to know how you connect the dots existentially between morality here and now and immortality there and then. The part that revolves around Judgment Day.
3] I would need to be apprised of how you address the question of theodicy.

The argument you choose to provide instead:

@ShackledSpirit

Just ask Jesus if He is real. Be patient!

He will come.

Come on admit it:

This is all just an exercise in irony on your part. You play this knee-jerk religious fanatic “FreeSpirit” in order to mock those who actually are knee-jerk religious fanatics. Even the name “FreeSpirit”!

But, just in case you actually are able in all sincerity to think yourself into believing the mile wide, inch deep stuff you preach here, I feel it is now appropriate to provide you with a new username. Feel free to use it yourself.

[pood]

@FreeSpirit1983

“Do you ever think your world view could be wrong and you’re missing out on the most important truth there is??”

Do you?

But why should I answer your questions? Your ignore almost all my questions or points, or erect straw men of what I have said. This is typical apologetics. Apologetics = dishonesty, which is mystifying if your god is The Truth. Why does The Truth need to be carried by a battalion of lies?

If you have read even half my posts you would already have the answer to your question in any case.

[pood]

@FreeSpirit1983

That’s not true.

What’s not true? That there is no evidence that Jesus performed miracles?

If there is, please provide the evidence. Paul claiming Jesus performed miracles is not evidence.

[iambiguous]

@pood

@FreeSpirit1983

“Do you ever think your world view could be wrong and you’re missing out on the most important truth there is??”

Do you?

But why should I answer your questions? Your ignore almost all my questions or points, or erect straw men of what I have said. This is typical apologetics. Apologetics = dishonesty, which is mystifying if your god is The Truth. Why does The Truth need to be carried by a battalion of lies?

If you have read even half my posts you would already have the answer to your question in any case.

Just out of curiosity, do you actually believe that eventually your carefully reasoned arguments will sink into a mind like ShackledSpirit’s? And that some day he will “get” them?

After all, it didn’t work with me.

Though at least here we are more or less on the same page in reacting to philosophical buffoons like him.

You know, if that’s what he is.

[FreeSpirit1983]

@Maia

@FreeSpirit1983

Mohammad was a pedophile warlord. Not my favorite.

Buddha never claimed to be God nor did He resurrect from the dead.

Jesus is unique.

Muhammad, in addition to being both those things, also, according to contemporary reports from those who were with him, stuck his hand up into the sky and split the moon in half. Do you believe this to be true?

No because he was a warlord pedophile.

I think he was a charlatan.

[Maia]

@FreeSpirit1983

@Maia

@FreeSpirit1983

Mohammad was a pedophile warlord. Not my favorite.

Buddha never claimed to be God nor did He resurrect from the dead.

Jesus is unique.

Muhammad, in addition to being both those things, also, according to contemporary reports from those who were with him, stuck his hand up into the sky and split the moon in half. Do you believe this to be true?

No because he was a warlord pedophile.

I think he was a charlatan.

So the contemporary reports of this miracle are unreliable?

[FreeSpirit1983]

@iambiguous

@pood

@FreeSpirit1983

“Do you ever think your world view could be wrong and you’re missing out on the most important truth there is??”

Do you?

But why should I answer your questions? Your ignore almost all my questions or points, or erect straw men of what I have said. This is typical apologetics. Apologetics = dishonesty, which is mystifying if your god is The Truth. Why does The Truth need to be carried by a battalion of lies?

If you have read even half my posts you would already have the answer to your question in any case.

Just out of curiosity, do you actually believe that eventually your carefully reasoned arguments will sink into a mind like ShackledSpirit’s? And that some day he will “get” them?

After all, it didn’t work with me.

Though at least here we are more or less on the same page in reacting to philosophical buffoons like him.

You know, if that’s what he is.

I may be a phisophocal buffoon but Aquinas wasn’t.

Neither was Pascal.

And here I was beginning to think we were becoming friends.

[iambiguous]

@ShackledSpirit

I may be a phisophocal buffoon but Aquinas wasn’t.

Neither was Pascal.

But, unlike you, they are not here to completely ignore the points I raise.