it is precisely because you have greater opportunities and abilites than others that you should embrace life.
do you honestly believe that a child who is starving in a third world country, with no means of attaining a better life, would be glad that you chose not to enjoy the many opportunities available to you out of some desire to be fair?
do you think they would be comforted by the fact that because they have nothing, you chose nothing?
absolutely not. they would give so much to be in your positiotn that they would be shocked and offended that you would give up so much. if you feel that you can enjoy your life because others cannot, why not make it your lifes work to improve the opportunities of others. you will not be able to help everyone, but u can help make life more fair, more logical. you will be helping yourself and others.
if you feel there is no justice, make it your business to endow life with justice.
im sure you could not give a shit what our opinions of your actions are, but i think that someone who is being mistreated in their life would be exasperated if you killed yourself, simply because you chose to end your own mental quandary before you tried to help them.
if u dont want to enjoy yourself by consuming, help others. work for justice.
dont do it. you have so much to contribute, and, as you admit yourself, so many people to help.
Please… drop the act. Don’t pretend that death and suffering makes life more fun. Obviously challenging and interesting but the kind of challenging and interesting that you want to watch on tv. He’s obviously better off than worst case scenerios but that isn’t any comfort. I mean come on even in the military soldiers commit suicide all the time. Suicide has less to do with social status or material wealth than popularly believed. Having a computer isn’t a fucking reason to live.
You shouldn’t care but he should? wtf? Why say you’re better off when you “don’t care” about how much suffering other people go through?
Upset because you can change something but lack the will to do is one reason. Another is because death isn’t a very welcomed guest. You obviously agree or you wouldn’t be arguing against it. Unless of course you think less guys means more ass for you but with the cocky arrogant asshole approach I can’t see how anyone is going to like you.
And no… it’s quite the opposite actually. Most animals won’t kill members of their own species. They battle for dominance land mating but they don’t kill. It’s quite facinating actually especially amongst social animals how they tend for even the elderly and weak. And shit what a strange coincidence that we are a social animal.
Our psyche is like a tower containing three bureaucratic layers. Some are tower up high in sky. Whether life is tears streaming down like raindrops or grinning all the time like sun shines. They are transformed by 3 states. The basic layer is call instincts
It accounted for our real and true life benefit .It is nearly medium done. On the spires is our rational senses and our reasoning. The middle layer is the unsettled state of mind which often agitated our behaviors. Some babies love their parents are mainly for the precedence of life. He has to get foods and cares by their parents. Life s preferential rights start from the layer of instinct. Everybody wish to go in playpens so this is the instinct of freedom and self-respects.
As a boy grow up he enhance with many desires like social status, reputations or moneys. Reasoning advice he to be a honest man but also rich man or some gentleman but still full of braves and resourceful minds. He may also became an utilitarianism. If he is good in looking or smart he make tears brimming from poor girls eyes but dive into deep seas with wealthy girls. Some of them dream about winning big lottery and some wish to catch boars in other basements. All just our feeling that sweep away all obstacles
Beside instincts one thing which can apply to our volitions is our emotions. We have no spirits if we are low as for our emotions. We fond of happy and agitated by angry. We are always angry when we are insulted or offended by other peoples. When you are pleased you may full of mercury and you are kinder to others. Even demons may spare common innocents. An educated man who is being respected and always feel happy may be more benign. So good character is reflect like mirror by the three layer of your psychic towers. Metals are temper by fires like iron to be shaped. The stiffness and stubborn of our good personalities need serious discipline like forging with metals
How we put iron to shape of axes and sickles. A man has to face many ill-treatments before he plan to become a snappers. Honest to say Christ s point of views on human natures is like a snapper. This kind of man often at less will full of acrid talks even after good educations. In the negative effect they may also spoil our societies. Another kind of man who always be nice treated have cheerful life forms may became creepers in his whole life. On some negative effect he may fawn on and please superiors but very proud to inferiors as many people has wayward and heady natures. .
Men are many turn out top be bewilder or infamous while women are seductively charming. All recriminations, skepticisms or sanctimonious issues need true arbiters while we are alive. Sexploitations like pederast or pedophiles are just some of our natures. Who give us woolen blankets in cold winters instead of decorating one little flower in splendid palaces. The maze of life is full of enigmas and every man needs directions on books and others but please do not have pedantries.
Yes, most people are selfish, but can you blame them? Look at the world around, anyone with half a brain cell could see that it goes against all the ideas of a loving benevolent god. But you have people who are so messed up that they will ignore all this so they can cling to their hope; hope is a loving father that will see them right when they die. Yet he couldn’t give a fuck about all the others who are dieing, but for some reason he will love them!!! It baffles me why people believe in this type of god, if anything the idea for Karma or Gnosticism is much closer to the truth of our existence.
I have a good friend, who when I asked, “What do you think about all the evil in the worldâ€, told me too, “fuck off, enjoy your own life. Don’t let the bastards get you down.†Not what you would call a morally good statement or even one who cares about others. But it did raise the question, “Why should I care about somebody else?â€
Most of the clothes I wear are made by people living in 3rd world countries that are paid next to nothing. I capitalise off other peoples less fortunate lives. Their need to feed their children allows companies to get clothes made at a very cheap price. But why should I care? If there’s no God is there any point to worrying about it?
Why should there be Justice? The people who do the injustice don’t want justice, only those who are weak and oppressed. The powerful will always rule over the weak, that is the Nature of this world, Survival of The Fittest! Kill or be killed! These are not words to give you hope or words to bring on despair, but the facts as I’ve witnessed over the course of my life.
This world, which is based off the Stronger Survive, has created something unimaginable to Nature… Morality! God has not given us this; we have given it to ourselves! “Do to others, what you would have done to yourselfâ€, the golden rule as they say. But this is the rule of an oppressed people! Unless the oppressed join together to become Stronger it will only ever be a dream. Humanity needs to unite and fight what it deems immoral or evil, until then all evil will be permissible. But the sad part is most people couldn’t give two fucks! I got my house, car, wife and kids, “life’s not all that bad.†They’re having their fun, and you know what??? That’s all that matters!
Your not a coward, just somebody who’s losing the ‘Good Fight’ as the Christians would call it. But are you going to give up or continue fighting? As at this moment in time, that is the only meaning in your life. Meaning in life changes as our life changes. Meaning is not fixed, but fluid, we need to show adaptability in how we relate to the world.
Ultimately Hope comes from Faith, I’m not talking about religious faith, but in the belief that something is going to happen or things will change for the better. The words Hope / Faith are synonymous, identical. We have created Morality and despite the current state of affairs, things are getting better, slowly but surely. Because of people like you. But the difference is they didn’t kill themselves, they had their revenge and got even. They did what was in their heart and lived a life to better others. You can’t save the world, but you could save the lives of a couple of people, maybe even one? But death will do nothing. This life is one big chain linked together by peoples’ lives, remove even just one life from that chain and its loss will slowly ripple out and eventually affect all other people. This isn’t new age mysticism it’s mathematics, Chaos Theory.
You are right, having a computer isn’t a reason to live. He should just kill himself.
I don’t think death and suffering makes life fun…well maybe. I don’t know, I’d have to think about. But what if everything in the world was fair and just. Everyone looked the same…everyone had the same amount of money. There would be no “good looking” girls because for there to be good looking there has to be bad looking. There would not be huge sports stars because no one would be born with super athletic ability that we could marvel at. There would be no genius’s because everyone would be the same intelligence. For there to be a strong…there has to be a weak. A fair world is a horrible world…
I didn’t say he should care. He shouldn’t care. Why do I say I am better off when I don’t care? Because I’m happy and he’s suicidal. You decide who is better off?
Someone needs to turn on National Geographic. I have seen many shows where two chimps(are closest relatives) will fight it out for the role of dominant male and the loser will die. What about the Praying Mantis when the female bites the males head off after mating? There are many animals that will eat there own children. And why do those social animals care for the weak and needy? Because its a social function just like I said. Imagine if you were born on a deserted island and grew up there all alone. Do you think you would care if you found out one day that someone a half world away died?
By the way whose side are you on? Are you trying to get him to kill himself? Because I’m trying to give him reasons to live. It seems like you are the arrogant asshole who wants less cock around so you can get more ass.
Well… The way you put it the meaning of life is to become all powerful and materialistic. I’d rather someone die than run rampant with greed for power and wealth.
No a fair world is a boring world yet you live in one. In the sheltered modernized world of suberbia you don’t know adventure or death or violence yet you insist people should die to please who? News programs are the only beneficiary of death and violence. Maybe the military branches of governments but other than that you won’t ever know the type of violence that you’re embracing.
I say that because you’re saying that he should be grateful to be in his position when others are starving and dying yet you are championing death as your entertainment.
I don’t believe in better. I’d prefer his company rather than yours though. People who believe the things you believe for shock value just annoy me.
I’ve never heard of chimps fighting to the death over dominance. No animal would sacrifice their survival for their pride. They aren’t as stupid as humans. And yes I said most animals. Piranha are famous for eating each other. The point was to suggest that animals closest to us genetically are generally (not always) peaceful. I’m not claiming that there aren’t rare cases where assholes fuck up lives for entire populations.
Not yours. I’m not telling him to kill himself I’m just bringing up flaws and contradictions in your advice so if he does (which I hope he won’t) take your advice he will atleast understand the other side to being a selfish inhumane piece of dumb. He may already know but that doesn’t take away the incentive to tell you that you are an ass.
Its amazing how many people commenting here have absolutely no clue whatsoever what they’re talking about.
This is very much a situation where you have to know what you’re talking about to have anything of any sort of worth whatsoever to say to the person who started this thread. And the only way you can know what you’re talking about is if you’ve been in this situation yourself before, and it is quite obvious that few of you ppl have. Especially BillIHaven’tHadSexBeforeUniversity. I envy your ignorance because I believe in the saying ignorance is bliss. I just feel sorry for all the people you impose your ignorance on, especially when you use it to make them feel more inferior than you so that you yourself can feel more superior when you quite obviously don’t know what you’re talking about in most situations and you’re just insecure and in denial (no I’m not ) about your inferiority complex. Its so tedious.
As for most of the rest of you, telling Moonface they’re wrong doesn’t help at all. Telling them to cheer up only makes them feel worse. This method only seems to help the person who’s saying it feel better about their current overall opinion of life and assumes that the depressed person is stupid and somehow didn’t think of what you’re saying to them. Depression isn’t some sort of infection that suddenly affects someone and there is some easy antidote to make them better which they just hadn’t thought of. Its a result of having tried all the options you’re all suggesting and still not finding any value in them: I think that suicidal thought is induced by depression which is induced by lack of hope which is induced by failure to find meaning in anything. I don’t think its just a consistent sadness from a hard time in your life - thats just a symptom of it.
It seems to me that humans need meaning and need to find value in things, and this is at the root of all consistent happiness and satisfaction with life and it is the key to avoiding or coming out of depression.
The problem comes when they have grown up to expect value to come from things they’re told have value and when they look and don’t find it, they can lose motivation & hope and get depressed. Hope is a product of expectations and can be a great strength, but at the same time can be a great weakness - especially if you expect all the wrong things.
Its ok for most normal people who it doesn’t occur to to look below the surface and it often gets them through their whole life.
You have to realise that meaning is not there for you to find it. It doesn’t exist at all, unless you assign it yourself. And there is no more value to be found in death than there is in life. But at least in life, you have the opportunity to assign it. Value is a product of finding satisfaction in something which is a product of getting what you want. Value is found in things that you enjoy. Do those things or aspire to them and you will find value in them. Don’t expect value to be found in anything else. You have a lot more choice than you think. Suicidal thoughts are a product of feeling like there is no other choice - although many things are against the rules, pretty much anything is possible. Often the restrictions are just walls in your head. Can’t really say anything more specific unless I know your specific reasons for ur conclusions, but I think I’m pretty good with and clued up about this sort of stuff, so if u feel like trying to get out of this, I can help u help urself so talk to me if you want.
And btw on an unrelated point, its also amazing how ignorant most of you are about people living in the 3rd world. I think you’ll find that many of these people are happy. Just because they don’t have the same standard of living as us and have to be more concerned about their survival than us, doesn’t mean they’re unhappy. Thats like saying that everyone in medieval times was depressed because they don’t have the standard of living that we do.
Happiness comes from value. In the ‘developed’ world of the consumerist western society, everyone seems to be shown that value is found in material things or luxuries. As though value is somehow synonymous with cost. And thus people without much material wealth or luxuries find less value and so are less happy. Which is obviously wrong. People in the 3rd world find value in other things that are more qualitative than quantitative on the whole. In some ways, they are more fortunate than us because they can choose what to find value in, rather than be told what to find value in with intensive advertising and with ‘ideals’ being shoved in your face every which way you go. They have more trouble surviving, but that can give more motivation than the western ‘must have more of what I don’t need but I’m told I must have’. In many ways, this way of life is much less happy than a 3rd world one.
I never said the meaning of life was materialistic. I don’t think there is any meaning in life but ones we assign. I am a philosophy major, the last thing I think the meaning of life is power and material. I hope to live on some Island working some meaningless job at a bar by the beach when I’m older.
CBA Wrote:
Well I saw a poll recently that asked people if they could live ever would they. Most people said no. Most people said they wouldn’t want to live to 500. I personnaly would want to live to 500 but not forever. People die, that is what happens in life. We can’t change that and there is no point obsessing over it. Why get all depressed about it. What is that going to solve. NOTHING. That is just going to make us unhappy. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING.
Is Michael Jordan better than you in basketball ?
So believing that you shouldn’t get depressed and kill yourself because life isn’t fair is a shock value belief…interesting… Or is the straw man you built of me the shock value??
Watch that Jane Goodall(sp) special on chimps. I think its called so like us. The old head of the clan chimp is ousted by a younger chimp and is left to die of his wounds. He would die but Jane takes care of him.
Silhouette wrote
I love it when people’s entire arguments are based on fallacious ad hominems and ignorance.
A little backround on myself…My mother has a panic disorder, ocd and other anxiety disorders. She’s been in and out of mental hospitals since she was a teenager. She has at many times throughout her life been suicidal and has attempted suicide. She had escaped the mental hospital and my father found her at the edge of a cliff about to jump. So if having a person quite possibly closest to you in life being suicidal is not having experience of the situation then I don’t know what is…Has someone in your immediate family been suicidal Silhouette? So am I really the ignorant one? Or are you the ignorant one? What ignorance am I imposing. Please elaborate. See if you can give me examples, or do your aguments simply falter when your done spouting ad hominems?
I’d also like to add that I am a psychology minor: I am no expert on the subject, but I am learning.
Silhouette wrote :
It seems on all accounts you are the ignorant one. DEPRESSION IS SOME SORT OF DISEASE! Depression is usually not caused by rational thought and loss of meaning it is a disease just like any other psychological disorder. And it can be cured(helped) by going to a Doctor and getting professional guidance and medication. The loss of meaning doesn’t come first…followed by the depression…the depression comes first…and a sympton of depression is a loss of meaning. I figured this might be the root of Moonface’s problems. But he claimed there due to philosophical thinking and said nothing of a disorder. So I argued as to why he is wrong…and if it truly is the reason why he is having these problems…then being shown wrong could help.
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Yes you’re right. You didn’t say that but you did imply it. I’m not saying that you do believe it just that you should be more careful with the way you word things.
Yes people die. There’s a difference between dealing with it and promoting it.
Yes he can accomplish a task (that being scoring) better than me. But what is the value of that task? Is his scoring a point worth more than… lets say my playing guitar? I’d put more value in a guitar than his points. Does that mean I’m better than him? No it means I can play guitar and he can play basketball. Not that either is better. Unless you’re trying to accomplish a goal does something become better. Life being meaningless has no goal so what becomes of better?
No believing that death is your personal entertainment is shock value.
Fine point taken. I was saying it’s rare because I don’t hear about it much. I didn’t say it didn’t happen.
If life is truly meaningless than why do you say its bad to promote death? Why is death bad? When I say life is truly meaningless I mean that there is not one goal that everyone must follow. There is not just ONE meaning. Obviously if death is bad…then life must be good. Why is life good? I would argue it is because during life one can experience pleasures. So events that promote pleasure(love,music,etc) are GOOD. Events that promote displeasure are bad(torture,starvation). Good things being better than bad things. Michael Jordan’s basketball playing has produced more pleasure in this world than your guitar playing. His life has produced more pleasure in this world than your life. Michael Jordan is better than you.
Now what confuses me is whether or not everyone has an equal right to pleasure?Whether an action is good if you promote pleasure within your society only and displeasure out of your society. Should one be concerned with the happiness of people outside his family. town…society…country…world…?
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It’s bad to promote death because socially death is unacceptable. Humans don’t like it. Overall though humans don’t matter much outside of their own existance. So I value what we think lightly but more than other things because there is nothing else.
When I say life is meaningless I mean there is no ultimate goal. There is no universal goal. Life itself is meaningless.
No Michael Jordan just produces more pleasure. He isn’t better. I don’t enjoy watching him play as much as I enjoy playing guitar. Does that make me better than him? I like myself more than I like him therefor I must be better than him. That doesn’t make sense.
It depends on the way you view it and what it is. If it was a holocaust and it pleased 2/3s of the world and I was the 1/3 that was going to die than no it wouldn’t be better. Plus you’ve got to take into consideration the fact that just pleasure isn’t that great either.
) about your inferiority complex. Its so tedious.