kant, ethics and God

I have always been both intrigued with and puzzled by Kant’s moral philosophy. How reasonable is it? How does God figure into it? How, if Kant’s metaethical approach to laying a rational foundation for the construction of a Kingdom of Ends is applied to an actual moral conflict, does it fare? For example, can it be used such that each individual embraces a “prudential” judgment regarding the ethical parameters of aborting a human fetus? Suppose you have two highly intelligent Kantians using the methodology Kant suggests and coming to completely opposite moral conclusions about abortion? How is this any different from two highly intelligent advocates of existentialism doing the same thing? In other words, suppose on issue after issue after issue the overwhelming prepondernce of those who embrace Kant’s deontological moral philosophy all derived the very same ethical convictions. Kantians may claim that misses the point, of course, but if, in fact, almost all Kantians did derive the same ethcial conviction on almost all moral conflicts that would be a startling thing. And I’m sure Kantians would be the first to point it out. But they don’t do they? Instead, they are all over the moral map just like the rest of us.

This would seem to indicate all the more it is simply not possible to deduce an essential or universal moral perspective regarding the aborting of a human fetus----whether the circumstances ranged from a one week old embryo conceived as a result of a busted condom…to a 5 month olf fetus conceived as a result of a father raping his own daughter…to a fetus literally hours away from being born.

This is a crucial point for me. Whether you spend hour after agonizing hour in deep introspective reflection or merely flip a coin there is no way to differentiate the decison to obtain an actual abortion in an actual circumstantial context as a moral or an immoral choice. In the end you just say, “this is how it appears to me…this seems reasonable to me.” But of course others who come to very different conclusions then yours are saying the very same thing about their own conflicting vantage point. And this in effect is situational ethics. You try to embrace each moral context as intelligently as you are able, sure; but you are forced to acknowledge the inherent limitations we all face in pursuing this daunting task. No one, in other words, can know for certain if a fetus is a human being—not in the sense that, say, the Constitution affords certain inalienable rights to individuals. Nor can men know what it is like to endure the experience of being forced to give birth against their wishes. So, how would anyone be able to “transcend” the clearly existential nature of such factors [but two of many others] so as to come forward with a moral conviction they feel should be embraced as a universal law?

Kant, of course, got around this antinomy by depositing his “universal” moral philosophy into a transcendental contraption—God. Perhaps not the conventional rendition of God, but God none the less.

Here, for example, is how Christine M. Korsgaard encompassed this in, Creating the Kingdom of Ends:

[b]The threat posed by the impossibility of achieving the Highest Good is best understood by considering the way the moral motive functions. You view yourself as a member of the intelligble world and so as a possible legislator of the Kingdom of Ends. You are among the world’s first causes. But there are other first causes: other persons, and whatever else is responsible for the way things appear to us and so of the material content of the laws of nature. In the phenomonal world the results of our actions are determined not just by our intentions, but by the forces of nature and the actions of other persons. Our attempts to realize the good are often diverted by these other forces. It is this that gives rise to the antinomy. Kant’s description of the problem in Critique of Judgment is better:

‘He [a righteous man] desires no advantage to himself from following the moral law, either in this or in another world; he wishes, rather, disinterestedly to establish the good to which the holy law directs all of his powers. But his effort is bounded; and from nature…he can never expect a regular harmony…with the purpose which yet he feels himself obligated and impelled to accomplish. Deceit, violence and envy will always surround him, although he himself is honest, peaceable and kindly; and the righteous men with whom he meets will, notwithstanding their worthiness of happiness, be yet subjected by nature which regards not this, to all the evils of want, disease and ultimately death, just like the beast of the earth…The purpose then which this well-intentioned person has and ought to have before him in his pusuit of moral laws, he must certainly give up as impossible’[/b]

So, here we are, mere mortals cast out of the Garden…out of Paradise and forced to make our way through the days groping as best we can to understand what it means to “do good” and, in turn, incessantly bumping into all of these “phenomonological” obstacles that impede our progress. How are we to know Right from Wrong and, once having taken our leap, how are we to intertwine our choices with others in a “natural world” that brings us one calamity [man-made and otherwise] after the next? And why should we “do good” anyway when all paths lead to oblivion? It certainly does seem, as Kant suggests, it would be best to give up the task “as impossible”, right?

Watch, then, how Kant resolves this:

Korsgaard:

The solution to this and every antinomy is to appeal to the noumenal/phenomoenal distinction. In the world of the sense, there is no causual connection between a virtuous disposition and happiness, but there could be a connection between one’s noumenal disposition and one’s happiness in the world of sense. But this connection would be indirect: it would be mediated by an Author of Nature who had designed the laws of nature so that the connection holds [C2 114-15]. In order to play the role envisaged, this Author would have to be omnipotent [to design the laws of nature], omniscient [to look into the hearts ofrational beings and know their moral dispositions] and perfectly good.

But Kant has, as noted, already deconstructed this metaphysical font so we can’t fall back on the guy with the big white beard. Instead, we need a neo-metaphysical construct to take his place.

More Korsgaard:

The Author of Nature would have the attributes traditionally ascribed to God. If there were a God, then, the Highest Good would be possible, and morality would not direct us to impossible ends. Since we must obey the moral law, and therefore must adopt the Highest Good as our end, we need to believe that end is possible. So we need to believe in what will make it possible. This is not a contingent need, based on an arbitray desire, but ‘a need of pure reason’. this provides a pure practical reason for belief in God. [C2 142-43]

But what is this really? Isn’t it whatever Kant’s “rational mind” deduces it to be. It is, for all intents and purposes, merely human psychology at its most self-deceptive. We want to live in a world that is Good; and we want always to be able to Do Good in it. Yet we know that, out in the phenomonal world, this is often very, very, difficult to actualize. Not only because the incessantly slippery and sliding circumstantial contexts are bursting at the seams with complex and convoluted contingencies, ambiguites and, uncertainies…but also because we need some sort of “extra-phenomonological” incentive to Do Good when, in so doing, we get dumped on by reality over and over and over again.

More from Korsgaard:

[b]A faith in God and in immortality of the soul thus based on practical reason—our practical faith—is not just wishful thinking, because it springs from a rational demand. As Kant strikingly puts it:

‘Granted that the pure moral law inexorably binds every man as a command [not as a rule of prudence], the righteous man may say: I will that there be a God, that my existence in this world be also an existence in a pure world of the understanding, and finally that my duratiom be endless [C2 143]’[/b]

But isn’t this really just Christianty in another guise? It matters not how cleverly the Kantians manipulate the abstract words in the abstract metaethical concepts, it’s the same thing. Therefore, in my view, they are only deluding themselves when they suggest this a priori mental construction is establishing something really different.

Finally from Korsgaard:

Our beliefs in God, immortality and freedom…are ‘postulates of practical reason’. A postulate of practical reason is theorethical in form, asserting something about what is the case, yet it cannot be shown theoretically to be either true or false. But we have an interest springing from the needs of morality in believing it. Since practical reason supports belief in the postulates, its power is more extensive than that of theoretical reason. In establishing the postulates, practical reason takes up the metaphysical tasks that theoretical reason had to abandon. For if there is a God, who made the world in order to achieve the Highest Good, then the world does have an unconditionally good purpose. A teleological account of the sort that the metaphysian seeks—one according to which everything is made for the best in the Best of All Possible Worlds—would be true.

This is less philosophical speculation, in my view, than a human all too human psychological reaction to imagining a world without God. If God does not exist, in other words, we have to invent Him. A priori, as it were.

Kant’s categorical imperative is basically situational for each person. The idea is that you would do what you would want everyone else to do in the same situation. That is why choice is so important for humans and should be considered a basic right.

Then why introduce the transcendental element at all? There has to be a point of view in the end able to judge the worthiness of our acts out in the world with others. Otherwise what would ultimately motivate people to do things that, over and over and over again, have the potential to make their existential lives [the lives they live] quite miserable?

Kant might not have dared to give himself the credit due to him - to know himself as the God, or the goal-setter, of whom/which he sees it necessary that he/it exists.

The secularization of what was introduced by the Hebrews as the invisible absolute, seems to flow somewhat organically from the current which led from Judaism to Christianity - the definition of “chosen”, from observant Jews to “Ye who accept Jesus Christ as his lord and savior”, to the set of people Kant has in mind as being capable of finding out what is right and willing to do it.

It sounds like an advancement to me. Kant is I suppose still a religious thinker - but it is maybe not so bad if good(ness) is not referred to as a person. Suddenly, the old desert-god had to compete with the freshly emerging possibile images of (the) good and just.

I wonder if it’s significant that the mans’ life was contemporaneous to the legislation that was being put into place on the other side of the Atlantic. Since in following centuries many of such possibilities dramatically came to life in moving image, would you not say Kant has profoundly influenced American and modern western life? If so, would you consider this a good influence?

This is a straw man. I was talking only about choice.

What you choose to do is so profoundly rooted existentially in history, culture, experience and your own uniquely interpersonal relationships, the straw man needed by deontologists is the “transcending” font that levels the merely phenomenal interactions of mere mortals. If God doesn’t exist He has to be invented. Why? Because otherwise the “categorical imperative” makes no sense at all. Not in a world where, without it, each individual can claim his or her own interpretation of what constitutes a “universal” vice or virtue.

Why choose this behavior instead of that one? Why choose to abort the fetus or not to abort it? In the world of mere mortals these questions are just points of view—ever entangled in contingency chance and change. They are inherently problematic. Therefore, either God or Reason is needed to settle it once and for all. Kant seems somehow to intertwine them. But he does this by and large with words.

Or so it seems to me.

Not very.

Through the back door. he’s all dressed up in the robes of that Great Rationalist in the Sky, but he’s still that cranky old jewish guy we’ve all come to Know and love.

Very poorly. That’s one of Kant’s problems. His moral framework doesn’t stand up to cases. The cases he gives are stupid enough. We can all think of cases that make Kant look even stupider.

No one really knows. Part of the beauty of Kant is that he never argues for goods. he pretty much just gets them out of the Bible. The Bible is vague about this.

Oxymoron.

Why should they even care?

Are you saying that you actually know some Kantians?

The moralist’s job is not to settle the disputes but to define the terms of those disputes. Kant, being a rationalist, didn’t pay any direct attention to “disputes”. To a rationalist, you’re either right or wrong. If you’re in dispute with someone who is right, then you are wrong. The rationalist doesn’t need to deal with disputes. But Kant was an idiot. I agree that there’s no such thing as a universal morality, but you really can’t deduce that from Kant. He’s just one man.

Of course there is. At some point, you have to make a decision. You have to decide what you think right and wrong is.

Iam - why on earth are you trying to get someone to tell you what right and wrong is? The moralist is there to help you decide. But it’s still up to you to decide.

Nothing will end moral disputes. Or financial disputes. Or disputes over chicks.

That doesn’t mean that you can’t seek help in deciding if it’s right to think that the chick is worth the money.

How insightful.

…Huh?! Kant discarded God into the realm outside sense-experience. The noumenal realm. God gets scant mention, just a brief and disingenuous tip-of-the-cap, so that KrV—(the only book that matters)—could get past the Konigsberg censure. Kant was probably a raging atheist. At least, according to KrV, nothing in the realm where God was discarded is at all knowable. That’d make him something like an agnostic. This business about how Kant was religious is really a bunch of superficial bullshit.

There’s plenty of intelligent neo-Kantians. You don’t know any??

Thank goodness I wasn’t eating anything—I might have choked. Ahem, there’s this whole branch of philosophy… called “applied ethics”… and all you do is solve problems.

...Huh?! Kant discarded God into the realm outside sense-experience. The noumenal realm. God gets scant mention, just a brief and disingenuous tip-of-the-cap, so that KrV---(the only book that matters)--

I have no idea what “KrV” means, but Kant wrote about God and religion many times. That may not matter to you, but it surely mattered to him.

I stand by my statement.

There are criminologists and there are cops. The cops on TV think they’re criminologists, and the applied ethics crowd think they are moralists. If you’re confused about that, that’s not my fault.

I don’t see where this comes from, at all.

Kant’s categorical imperative is asituational, insofar as (as he presents it) you take an action like “lying” pur sang, out of any context, and consider what would happen if everyone did it. This is, for me, its weakness - with the first hint of context, the different twists and turns of interpretation make everything arguable again.

Given that he believed in a rational Right and Wrong answer, the only choice he permits is the freedom to make mistakes - you can argue that’s important from a freedom point of view, but not from a choice point of view.

Kritik der Reinen Vernunft. Or, Critique of Pure Reason. I’ve already told you why Kant was probably an agnostic. You might not care that I’m right, but I am.

You’re confused. You still think philosophers are really just and only lexicographers. If you’d rather be discoursing about the principles and proper use of a semi-colon than solving real-life philosophical problems, I can’t help you.

I’m not sure it matters, the way the question was asked, and answered. One could talk of where God comes in, in Nietzsche. And God is all over Nietzsche. And Nietzsche is all over God.

Never heard that one before.

Yes, and if you also accused Nietzsche of parroting the Bible then I’d say you were wrong, again, for the same general reason.

That’d surprise me.

Perhaps not religious in a denominational sense, but how is the categorical imperative rationalized without a transcending point of view? Sans God the only feasable alternative seems to be the route Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud took: Science. Or the route Ayn Rand took: Reason.

As in, metaphysical reason.

Can you cite some accomplishments this branch of philosophy has accrued over the years?

Good points.

Context and point of view are everything. At least to me. I suggest then the task of philosophy is to make distinctions between propositions that are true regarding all contexts and propositions that can be defended such that any particular point of view is unreasonable if it rejects them.

Taking into account of course Hume’s speculation that neither empiricism [induction] nor rationalism [deduction] has a lock on Reality.

What I have trouble wrapping my head around is the precise relationship between ethics, Kant’s categorical imperative, God and what some describe as Kant’s “third way”: synthetic a priori arguments.

It’s all blurry to me once you take the concepts out into the world.

For Kant, religion essentially was morality. He claimed that God “arises out of morality”, and therefore thought that religious belief was an integral part of morality. His aim seemed to become a religious-like faith in Reason, which left the burden of moral standards on us. However, he also realized that morality on a mass scale must necessarily involve an appeal to something [which became “Reason” and phenomenal/noumenal distinctions, in his case]. That to which we appeal is also necessarily uncertain [as he asserted about Noumena], but must seem reasonable enough to support moral standards, which do not exist inherently or objectively otherwise.

In other words, a religious-like appeal to authority [or some other guiding force] is necessary for men to remain “moral”, even if that authority can’t be proven. So, rather than attempting to prove that which he recognized as “impossible”, he rationalized. ‘Reason’ is certainly not infallible, but is no more absurd an article of faith than God in theistic terms. I personally think that his formula shows some interest in making morality less dogmatic and more intuitive [so to speak]. Rather than appeal to God, we appeal to Reason and noumenal/phenomenal distinctions.

The obvious problem is that his “Categorical Imperative” was a theory of positing moral absolutes/universals solely on the grounds of Reason. And, as O_H pointed out, these ‘maxims’ to be used as moral standards are to be approached as asituational, even though we act and experience [and create these ‘maxims’] on a situational basis. Conflicts occur in different contexts. Plus, it seems impossible that the whole of humanity could/would agree as to what is most reasonable, rational, or prudent in any given situation. The only thing that still seems to cross these cultural, intellectual, or otherwise contextual biases is an appeal to authority. A majority of human beings couldn’t realistically be expected to remain moral, or even care to be moral, if left to their own devices [ex. “Reason”] for guidance.

Has this not been the case as a task of Philosophy? Do propositions exist that are necessarily ‘true’ in all contexts?

Kant just gave god another name. The name of the father was now “reason”. Not exactly what any of us considers reason to be, but then it was only the name.

From this name-change followed several political consequences. It was now possible to speak of absolute rights and judgment outside of the church.

Personally, I think that, with respect to moral and political philosophy, it should be the task. And I think the proposition, “ethics is situational” is reasonable in all contexts. But, necessarily so? No, that’s true, I would never go that far.

But it would surely amaze me if someone was able to point me in the direction of what one might call the moral equivalent of a black swan?

Don’t equate the noumenal realm with god. The categorical imperative can be rationalized by using your reason. That’s Kant’s view.

Sit back. Relax. Think of any practical moral problem that has ever been solved, or to which progress has been made toward solving, in the entire history of human civilization. You can come up with examples yourself. It’s not hard. Applied ethicists aren’t just people being paid in academia—that only really started in the last 30 years. Did you come up with examples? Equal rights? Freedom of peoples? Emancipation of women? Animal rights? Environmental regulations? The momentum behind any progress or problem solved is on the back of applied ethicists, using the tools and techniques of reasoning that make them who they are.