let us look at what is possible...

now some have complained, that I don’t offer us any answers,
no, I don’t offer up cheap and easy answers which is what those who complain
about really want… I only offer us questions… and by seeking the right question,
we then are in a position to understand what is the right answer…

but let us play this game a bit differently… instead of saying, what are the
answers, let us try this… let us do the opposite… what the answers aren’t…
we know somewhere there is a solution to the question of existence,
let us say what the answer are not… and then by process of elimination,
we might, might arrive at what is possible for us to do to reach our answers
to existence…

Nietzsche said, “god is dead and we have killed him”… that statement
over 140 years ago, still hasn’t been proven to be wrong…
given that no one, but no one has proven that wrong, let us
accept it as reality… god is dead… so how do we find a solution
to the question of existence via a dead god? in the west, all religions
have at their center, the existence of god… but he is dead… now what?

and in the east, like Buddhism, have no need for a god and yet,
like some spirit or ghost in the machine, if you look closely enough,
you can see god, hiding in the machine… so we have this thing called
“Reincarnation” in which we get born and reborn again and again until
we reach the state of Enlightenment…Nirvana… which means, literally,
“blown out” like in a candle…is a concept in Indian religions
(buddhism, hinduism, jainism and sikhism) that represents the ultimate
state of salvation, release from the physical world… the liberation from
repeated rebirth in in the endless cycle of existence… of the repeated being
born, living, and then dying and then all over again…
but the question arises… that is an awfully sophisticated system to arise
naturally… one would think a system that complicated needs to have
someone create it if not to continue it on…you could, at the beginning,
have a god create this vase and complicated system and then have it
run on forever on its own power but at its heart, the concept of
Reincarnation needs a god if for no other reason to get the ball rolling…

somewhere deep in those Indian religions, lay a god, who is a cog in
the machine…they didn’t escape god, they simply moved him to another part
of the equation…god isn’t front and center in the Indian religions, but he is there
nevertheless…but once again, “god is dead and we have killed him”
if god is a cog in the machine, then he is a dead cog… what keeps the
system moving if god is dead? that energy has to come from somewhere if
it is not coming from god…

(in fact, one could write a book about the question of god and energy in
religions… how does god create the energy to keep the universe going on?
that is an interesting question… the relationship between god and energy)

in the west, god is the answer to the question, what keeps the system going?
in the east, the answer is hidden, but it is still god that drives the system,
keep the energy going… so, the question of religion becomes,
what drives the system? where does the energy to keep this vase
enterprise going, come from? think of a car… we have several different
means of keeping a car going, gas, diesel, electric, and some combinations
of these…but clearly there is other possibilities, we just haven’t found them yet…

so, what other possibilities can we think of that can run the system?
what other forms of energy that we can think of that can replace
god, in the system?

Now we know from our study of the last 140 years or the birth of the modern world,
that human beings have become fractured, damaged, divided into atoms that
have no connection to anything… we have lost the ism’s and ideologies that
hold human beings into place for over a thousand years… how can we trust
such ism’s and ideologies that have failed us like capitalism, communism,
religions like catholicism, and Buddhism…we cannot turn to failed
ideologies and ism’s to find a way out of our cul de sac…

the modern path of being a consumer, producer, worker, has failed…
look around you or better yet, look inside of you…to work for 40 plus
years to find oneself in poverty at the end of our working years isn’t pleasant…
now one might say, I have a house and white picket fence and a dog name rover…
I am living the dream… no, you have failed… you have sold yourself into
slavery for worthless trinkets… a house isn’t a measure of our existence,
a nice car isn’t a measure of our existence… and a “good” salary is a measure
of your existence… because that means you existence can be (and is)
simply bought and sold… you have no choice in this existence because
you are now a slave in the system… every single toy you buy is just
another year of working for others… to buy a house means a lifetime
commitment to being a slave in capitalism… you cannot escape to become
who you are… your existence is devalued, dehumanized by the ism that
controls our every move…think about it… your every action is dictated
by rules, laws, convention, custom… you cannot escape these things…
buy a dog, then you must get a dog license, go fishing, you need a fishing license,
buy a car, you need a license, you need insurance, you are committed
to the buying of that car for a certain number of years… a loan to buy
that car means you are working for years to free yourself of that loan…

your every step is done in accordance to the rules and laws of your society, state,
the culture…going to collage… then you have a set of rules to follow… certainly
not for your convenience… but to “protect” the system…
next to the "system’’ you have no value of any kind… you are simply working
to power that system into the next day and beyond…you have no other value…

there is no path of escape in this direction…

so what other path is there?

we have ruled out god, and we have ruled out following ism’s and ideologies,
and we have ruled out seeking the trinkets of our modern age, seeking
wealth, money, power, fame, material goods… none of these allow us
any kind of chance of escape from our modern world…

some possibilities that might exists are what I have talked about in the past,
in which we seek to find our excellence… we strive to reach our potential in
whatever activity we engage with… so, in my youth, I ran track… my engagement
was not to win the race because frankly, I wasn’t that good, I knew, knew that I
wasn’t ever going to win a race… but I still kept going, why?
my goal wasn’t to win, but to become better… instead of my prior best being
a 4:55 mile, I tried to reach a 4:50 mile and if I achieved that, I went to
try for a 4:45 mile… which I never reached… I was trying to achieve
my best in the activity of my choice…and we can do this not necessarily engaged
in sports… we can engage in travel, or climbing mountains, or leaning new things…
the point is to become something more then what we are right now… with the
choices we make, we have the freedom to become the possibility we see for ourselves,
not the possibility that others decide for us, but that we decide on…

to become who we are within our own choices… to seek our own possibilities
in whatever activity we decide upon…In America, we live to work… the new
path is to work to live…we aren’t engaged in work as our primary activity,
but as a means to engage with what our primary activity is, be it running the mile
or climbing the mountains, or to learn new things… to become who we are…
and work is a means to that ending…

a new way to understand what our existence means…

now one might say, in Europe or in the east, that new message is already
heard… but I say unto you, the west has exported its most destructive
ism in capitalism. we offer the world a chance to become slaves to
the capitalism system…and I hope the world rejects that possibility…
and walks away from the most destructive ism ever created, capitalism…

if the point of existence isn’t to become who you are, what is the point?


And now (as is very often the case) to find the truth - just reverse everything the Marxist Commie Cult leader PK just said. - easy way to find the truth. :smiley:

so I wait for an intelligent poster to post…


I fed your whole OP in to my AI Peter and it gave the following reply:


The problem with the modern notion of individuality is that its conception is
anachronistic: it was, after all, first formulated by 19th century bourgeois
thinkers and it’s very closely associated with a certain form of bourgeois
democracy, one of whose principal aims is to ensure that we all have the
time, energy and money to pursue our own path in life, regardless of what we
feel like doing. The fact that that was the aim, rather than an end in
itself, means that there’s a danger it might be used to stifle creativity and
expression (rather than simply being a means to an end).

A man is in the act of being a man if he is continually
wrestling with new possibilities. If he takes no initiative, he sinks to the
level of a mediocre creature.

In fact, for you to become who you really are
you must become somebody new.

The purpose of self-improvement is not that you
become who you really are, it’s that you become someone new.

The point of life is that you live, not that you exist.

If you’re a musician, you play the notes, and they become

If you’re an actor, you act, and they become a story.

If you’re an entrepreneur, you grow a business, and they become
an organization.

If you’re a writer, you write a book, and it becomes

If you’re a philosopher, you philosophize, and the philosopher becomes the
personification of the ideas.

If you’re a creator, you create, and the creator becomes a legacy.

If you’re an athlete, you play, and you become a legend.

If you’re a student, you study, and you become the greatest.

If you’re an inventor, you design, and you become a product.

The point of existence isn’t to become who you are, the point is

the moment of existing. We are all going to become whatever we become. So, the point

of it all is to enjoy whatever you become.

I want to say it one more time because I am

probably going to run out of breath.

The point of existence is to enjoy whatever you become.

And if you can, enjoy while becoming.


I agree with the first point. I do not quite understand the second part. Are you speaking of living in the present moment?

As for the first part, I think that “becoming” is an ongoing process of existence unless we individually stagnate and stop evolving. Even so, we still continue becoming something because of our thoughts, feelings, actions. You make it sound as though what we become is something which happens to us as opposed to what we can make happen. You make it sound as though we are fated or predestined …

I have a feeling that many individuals are not happy with whoever or whatever they see themselves as having become so how can they enjoy that?

Individual human evolution is the main point of existence and we may not always enjoy it, it may be very difficult at times for us but we can strive to keep going because that is all we really have.


I do agree that we must shed our old skin and grow new skin and that is cyclical.
Parodites, do you believe that individuals are born already pre-destined to be who they are to become - like famous writers, poets, musicians, composers, artists, et cetera?

I think that both of those words “live” and “exist” can work in a very positive way as long as one’s intention is actually to make the most out of his-her life.
Of course, one can feel that one is living miserably and one can also feel that one is existing miserably.

One of my favorite quotes is John Keats. “I will clamber through the clouds and exist.”

Ad infinitum