Lets discuss Murder

I was reading something in a facebook group called “Jesus was a Liberal”. Maybe for the most part he was but he did have conservative ways that he taught. Either way these liberals seem to believe Jesus would be Pro-choice because of self-liberation. Sure it’s the womans choice but lets not forget what reason they are having an abortion…and for the most part these reasons are dumb to me. I’ve heard many say, if the woman was raped, well if the woman was raped then trust God you are going to love the baby and whatever else you think ‘may’ go wrong with your hypothesis…This would be taking the future into your own hands as I see it and preventing something because of what you think this kids life will be like.

Regardless, I’ve heard pro-life idiots say well it’s wrong and it’s murder. And then they say so is war. And this is what I wanted to discuss mainly. Did God not help with wars in the bible? I heard one story of an angel taking out thousands of men. Did God not destroy sodom and gomorrah?
But maybe I’m wrong here since this sodom I know was at least before the Jesus came and the old law didn’t have to be followed.

Either way the question here is…what does God think of War? If you are defending yourself is that not just? So if that’s true, not “all” war can be bad can it?.. Wouldn’t it then just be the reasons for war? Please discuss I want to hear opinions.

Wars often carry with themselves an Us vs. Them mentality. People believe that humans are the only beings capable of such atrocites. Yet, in reality even the smallest aspects of life wage wars. For starters look within yourself; and I don’t mean metaphoricaly but rather literally. Your immune system it constantly fighting battles to protect the “us” against “them” being virii, bacteria, etc. And to a much larger scale primates such as chimpanzee’s and gorillas often have tribal wars.

I am not sure how God would feel about war. People have fought in the name of God for war but we don’t know if they got his official approval or rather were justifying their actions.


This is a quick stroll at what prolly happened at Sodom and Gemorrah. I think people were simply rationalizing the amazing damage the earth could cause.

I feel war is just an eternal struggle over pride, territory, and nature. But I admit I may very well be wrong.

Could very well be. But sometimes you have to kill for the greater good do you not? You can’t just sit back and let everything you believe in die can you? It’s not like people who fight in wars are proud of the killing…they’re proud of the protecting and serving. But here again it all comes back to motives…and can you really generalize one country into one motive?

As far as sodom and gomorrah goes…it could quite possibly be God who caused this volcano to errupt at this particular time? Why is it we always look at God as a wizard…

Give me an example.

Sure you can, we are just mortal shells right? Everything is temporary. I know you are a Christian and so doesn’t Jesus say to turn the other cheek? And forgive them father for they know not what they do? I see this as a statement best said by Immanuel Kant.

“There is no justice in this lifetime.”

also another great one by Marcus Aurelius.

“Fiat justicia et pereat mundo.” (Let Justice be done though the world perish)

Both tell you that what we enact in this life is self-destructive, and inane.

This is an overgeneralization. The number one protesters of war are those who have fought in wars. Ask yourself with humanity is there ever such thing as a just war? Doesn’t someone gain or lose something in all wars?

Of course not, but as I said there is territory, financial gain, pride, oppression, and allies to think of. War can be fought on the front lines honorably, but in the back someone is assuredly doing something dishonest.

Killing for the greater Good as seen by a ‘whole’. We can sit here in our air conditioned houses with all our freedoms, but we must realize it’d be mass chaos if there wasn’t war. You would not have the freedoms you have today if it weren’t for war. Sadly enough it doesn’t have to be this way but because of those who disagree…it is.

Sure God say’s turn the other cheek to anger. Why must it seem war is always out of anger?

You’re right no War is ever just for both sides. We fight for what we want in life, and so do you.

If you don’t believe in God or have a religion, than why would killing be wrong to you?

Yes someone in the back is probably doing something dishonest…and that’s the sad part, but that’s life. But we our a democracy and we make our decisions as a country, we wouldn’t be allowed to do that if we didn’t have wars.

Club29 quote - what does God think of War?

For millennia God has used his warriors as his “power tools”:-
“Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath” (Isaiah 13:2-9)

Why would he use us as power tools? It’s not our job to carry out his wrath…not since Christ came.

Club29 quote - Why would he use us as power tools? It’s not our job to carry out his wrath…not since Christ came

Hitler sat in France firing rockets across the channel at Londons men women and children so we had to do D-Day to stop him…
And Jesus’s righthand man Peter carried a sword, he even sliced off the ear of the high priests flunkey with it when they tried to arrest Jesus…
Sure, Jesus said cool it Peter, but the fact remains he allowed him to carry it in the first place…

Give me a proper way to measure this “whole”.

How do you know this? I think people in Switzerland are fine and have no chaos to deal with.

What freedoms are you referring to? And how do you know that we would not have more freedoms if not for aggression on man’s part?

I said nothing of anger but rather of vengeance. Most wars fought by humanity have been of retalititory nature.

I never did say I found killing wrong. But I do because unless it serves a true purpose it is a wasted action and of time. It is the lowest way to resolve a problem. I am not below killing in my own defense or for the safety of others. But, I would never kill for a physical possession or an idea.

We are much more a representative government then a democracy. We don’t make our decisions as a country but rather selected people do. Most people currently don’t agree with what they are doing and I am one of them. So, you are thankful for wars which rich people get richer?

Yes but both of these examples have nothing to do with God’s “wrath”. These examples are for self defense.

Well a whole would be a group…a citizen of a certain nation in which he/she lives. People can choose to live or not to live in America can they not?

I bet people in switzerland are fine…that’s has nothing to do with the point. You’re going off on a tangent here. If your country has been attacked and threatened, you don’t just sit there and take it.

I’m referring to every freedom we have. If a country attacked us it was most likely to inflict there beliefs on us, to conform us and as always for power…but when has America really done that? Isnt that all a matter of opinion?

You say retaliatory…I say defense. I guess it’s all a matter of how you look at it. But you have no idea what the motives are of our leaders.

Yes selected people make our decisions for the most part…but didn’t we select them for the most part? Didn’t we vote for the leaders our country? Is congress not equally represented by both radical sides?

I think we’re getting to close to politics here, and then to me that becomes all a matter of opinion and perspective.

And if we said that “God”, [like nature,] is amoral?

Club, you come in asking opinions but you have already made up your mind.

Speaking of tangents. Yes they do have the choice. But what does America have to do with the topic at hand?

Sure it does. They are a neutral nation and do not participate in wars.

I didn’t say you should. But it goes back to my point that wars are fought for ideas, possessions, and for safety of the us vs. them.

I do hope you are not serious with this statement so I will let you think about it a bit.

No, it can be proven with influences which were brought and is studied by sociologists. Look at Japan. Before WWII the most popular religion was Shinto. After the war it was outlawed and for some time and Christianity came into power. This is just one example. Another is the Middle East. The Qu’ran believes in theocracy but we try to supplant democracy because we can control those in power. This is and has been done throughout history.

You are not understanding the scale here. When Germany lost WW I they were essentially the nation that got punished the greatest. They felt highly bitter about what they lost. Hitler vowed to retaliate. Not defend. Retaliate. So the sins of the father came back to haunt the world.

Sure we do. Money, power, popularity, and veeery rarely honest desire to help people. Why else go into politics other than these reasons?

Better said for some part. Because we use an electoral college which does not necessarily mean the majority.

I think you came in here with your mind already made up. So why ask if you don’t take what other’s say to heart?

I think humanity would label it amoral because of our desire to label. Personally I feel war is natural but I think man currently makes the devastation he can create via technology unnatural.

What if everything is natural, and nothing is universally good or bad, it’s just a fact, – then what?

Then perhaps I am just struggling with labels and need to step back and examine it again.