Let's think really carefully about the concept of a single c

This being is supposedly perfectly good, and hates sin and evil, but ostensively, creates what it hates.

I could imagine punching someone in the shoulder and not do it, and as far as our legal system goes, I didn’t commit a crime… But supposedly the creator, imagined evil, and then implemented it.

For example … Things that suck. It didn’t have to do this, but it did. And we know enough about visualization and action to be aware of this.

That’s assuming there actually is a creator of this.

Think about the concept of thieves, we could all be so rich that none of us would think of stealing.

The list goes on and on.

Why create something you hate, or others hate?

Why create sexual stratification for asshole men?

I don’t even think asshole men like that!!

So here we are…

Was there an omni creator ??

‘Struggle’ is the common denominator … ‘struggle’ is the ‘fuel’ that propels humanity forward.

Humanity is a ‘work in progress’ … like the caterpillar on it’s way to metamorphosing into a butterfly … apparently even the DNA of the caterpillar is different from the DNA of the butterfly … though I’m not sure this is science or propoganda

That’s completely irrelevant to the argument I’m making… This is the old debate that you need evil for there to be good … It’s the worst kind if apologetics …

I can imagine hitting someone in the shoulder, not ever doing it, and feeling good about myself…

Supposedly the “creator of everything” decided to hit the person in the shoulder … Manifest as an actuality the initial state of the actualization of what it hates !!!

My use of the word ‘struggle’ transcends the notions of ‘good’ and ‘evil’.

Competition is ‘struggle’.

What if you had no need to compete because everyone always won… You’re adding apologetics again…

Way I see it, this God charachter could have had trouble ironing out the kinks of a utopia, and didn’t quite get the eternal part down, so they kind of instead made a masochistic rollercoaster type thing (earth life) so they could take a break from their failed utopia.

You gotta realize that God is pushed by causality just like everything else, and his morality is only as good as causality created for him. In that sense, my morality is perfected, I am the most perfect being, the ultimate lifeform, because I have the volition of perfect morality, it’s almost as if I am outside of causality, pushing causality, and causality is not pushing me, because my morality is so perfect could mere physics have made me so sublime?

I will cue in on this one.:

Have you ever lay on your back on a summer’s night , and at the behest of the prompting, of s buzzing fly, reveal to you the entire tapestry of the cosmos?

have you ever see eternity in her eyes, of the vast future you have created by your insemination? In
Other worlds continuing a harmony of semblancees
so?

Have you ever sat down after s failed suicide attempt
to find out that belly gazing has results like the fine
powdery color rubbing off the butter flies wings after you smothered it then threw it into waste?

Have you seen the same plant which only now ate a mullosk, yawn and turn itself into a sun seeking flower?

Have you actually, nearly go bananas over
champagne on ice while bombs whistled outside
reminding you there still is hope?

Have you ever, got lost with Kafka in his castle, or like
a blood hound went to seek out an artist who read you, and made contact?

If the answers to all or some of these is yes, then You can assuredly suspect, that God indeed had some intention for You.

You made him into Your image, he don’t care at all for the difference, it’s all the same for him he loves you for who He is.

Ecmandu … my comments were directed at “What is” … versus … "What if’

Seems to me dialogue based on “solid ground” is more productive than dialogue founded on 'quick sand. :slight_smile:

Contrary to your thinking, thinking something bad for any reason, but not doing it, considered a good deed in most of the religions, because focus is more on intentions and not to fall for wrong temptations.

One may have sinful thoughts for many reasons, some of which may be out of its control. But, the choice of action is certainly within its limit. That is why it is the only criteria to decide good or bad deed, not what crosses through one’s mind.

Let me tell you an interesting thing. In Islam, it is said that two angels permanently sit on each Human’s shoulder. The angel sitting on the right shoulder notes down every good act, while the left shoulder angel records all bad deeds.

But, if any sinful thought comes in any one’s mind, but he does not succumb to the temptation and fights it out, the right shoulder angel counts it as a good deed, thouh no deed was actually done in the reality.

With love,
Sanjay

Thoughts are not part of our ‘reality’?

Even a ‘prick of conscience’ is a struggle.

I think my point was missed.

There was supposedly a creator, maybe it’s called god, maybe it’s a man.

Whatever…

The point here is that like us when we think of doing something wrong, we don’t have to, and we celebrate ourselves for not doing this.

The hypothetical creator of everything can think of introducing drama wrongness and competition, and decide against it all, and feel good about itself.

The issue, is that people experience real bad, real wickedness and real loss… So obviously, this hypothetical creator decided it wasn’t enough to think about doing something bad, it actually did it, by introducing evil into the creation of all of this when it didn’t have to, saving all of us a tremendous amount of pain and suffering.

Ecc, I read your thesis, and I thought the same thing as a child. The counterargument is simple…God is pushed by causality so how could His morality or skill be any better than the natural processes which caused Him to be? Perhaps God introduced evil as a mistake, or perhaps evil is only an illusion meant to cure his illness of staying in Heaven too long.