Hello,
Here was your original post:
You then say in the post l’m replying to:
People of “faith” are demonstrably people who have given up on thinking through evidence…
You then say:
The Qur’an frequently describes paradise as a place of material and sensory delights …
- “Reclining on adorned couches, they will feel neither the scorching heat nor the bitter cold.” (Qur’an 76:13)*
- “They will wear garments of fine silk and rich brocade, and they will be adorned with bracelets of silver.” (Qur’an 76:21)*
These descriptions reinforce the idea that paradise is a place of ultimate physical comfort and aesthetic pleasure.
MY REPLY: I have no objection to this and am unsure how it bears on your original inflammatory remark.
You then say:
2. The Concept of Houris (Heavenly Maidens)
One of the most commonly cited aspects of paradise’s pleasures is the presence of houris—heavenly maidens described in various hadiths and Quranic verses. These companions are often depicted as beautiful, pure, and created specifically to reward believers.
- “And We will marry them to fair ones with large, [beautiful] eyes.” (Qur’an 44:54, 52:20, 55:72)*
- “Indeed, for the righteous is attainment—gardens and grapevines, and full-breasted [companions] of equal age, and a full cup.” (Qur’an 78:31-34)*
MY REPLY: This is a world away from what your original misrepresentation of Islam, which was:
"sex slaves…
… some trnascriptions use the word “whore” or “haw”, So it’s either 72 pros or 72 berries??"
The Qur’an quotes them as being Companions, not sex slaves. I object to the term “sex slaves” as it implies oppression, inequality. There is no injustice in Heaven, and as l say, the Qur’an mentions them in the context of Companions. Qur’an quotes you may have missed, describe them as wives (44:54), “Lovers, friends” (56:37) and “pure companions” (2:25), and “the good and beautiful” (55:70), for good men (56:38) etc. etc. etc.
Yet you have then called them “Whores”. This is extreme misrepresentation and false. They are clearly not prostitutes, and no description of them in the Qur’an or Sunnah supports your calling them such, and in fact Islam clearly teaches they are the antithesis of that.
You have given no source for them being “berries” either and l’m unsure how a berry can be a person’s lover, friend, companion or have breasts.
The term in Arabic is “Houri” which perhaps entered the English language via the German word “Hure” as intermediary, in the sense of “maiden” being turned into “maid” which in English is sometimes colloquial for “whore”. Google gives a different etymology (via Latin “Carus” meaning “dear”).
So anyway: I think “Houri” means “maiden”. I have read a different etymology, as “bright / beautiful” as follows:
Al-Hawra’ is a woman in whose eyes are lined with kohl, beautiful and bright. Al-‘iyn refers to beautiful and huge eyes. The beauty of eyes in the female is one of the greatest signs of beauty. [Source: Description of al-hoor al-‘iyn in the Quran and Sunnah - Islam Question & Answer ] . I guess that is why they are called “Al Hour al-'Ayin”.
POINT OF INTEREST: VIRGINS
The Qur’an, Islam’s primary text, states:
Chapter 55:
055.070 Wherein (are found) the good and beautiful -
055.071 Which is it, of the favours of your Lord, that ye deny ? -
055.072 Fair ones, close-guarded in pavilions -
055.073 Which is it, of the favours of your Lord, that ye deny ? -
055.074 Whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them -
Chapter 56:
056.035 Lo! We have created them a (new) creation
056.036 And made them virgins,
056.037 Lovers, friends,
056.038 For those on the right hand;
056.039 A multitude of those of old
056.040 And a multitude of those of later time.
That is to say:
They are a SEPARATE, NEW creation (see 56:35 above)
**UNTOUCHED (NOT EVEN SEEN) by any other creation (see 55:74 above). **
**They are not human, they are an archetype, and thus are already perfect, rather than requiring an upgrade as humans require, when they enter paradise. The virgins of paradise are a separate creation that is already perfect. **
They are lovers and friends (as addressed earlier, in response to your calling them “sex slaves” and “whores”) - see 56:37.
As per 56:38-40 (“For those on the right hand” etc.), it is seen that the Virgins of Paradise being for good men, of whom there will be a multitude from times before Islam and since Islam came about (note the ecumenicism of Islam there, it acknowledges that there were a multitude of good people before Islam, which surely includes Pre-Noahides, Noahides, Abrahamites, Jews, Sabians, Christians, etc. and this surely includes people of all nations. Is there are more equitable belief systsem?
You then say:
Hadith literature expands on these descriptions, with Jami’ at-Tirmidhi (Hadith 2562) mentioning that even the lowest-ranked believer in paradise will have 72 wives.
**MY REPLY: **
This is a critical shortcoming of the Western view of the “Barbaric, animalistic” Orient. You did not quote the ahadith, we need to get into the details to understand. The ahadith explain a lot about the Virgins of Paradise.
Here are some ahadith l have found:
-
It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The first group will enter Paradise looking like the moon on the night when it is full, and those who follow them will be like the brightest shining star in the sky. Their hearts will be as one, and there will be no hatred or jealousy among them. Each man will have two wives from among al-hoor al-‘iyn, the marrow of whose calves can be seen from beneath the bone and flesh.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3014; Muslim, 2843).
-
Ibn Hajar (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The stunning beauty of the hoori is such that the marrow of her calves can be seen from beneath her clothes, and a man will be able to see his face in the liver of one of them, like a mirror because of the fineness of her skin and the purity of her colour. (Fath al-Baari, 8/570) -
It was narrated that Anas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “If a woman from among the people of Paradise were to look out over the earth, she would illuminate everything that is in between them, and would fill everything that is in between them with fragrance. And the scarf on her head is better than this world and everything in it.”
-
There is a confusing summary of ahadith at the following webpage, which has a Salafist leaning and so overlays traditional Islamic beliefs with comments from later Salafists (Ibn Taymiyyah, Uthaymeen, Bin Baz, some of whom are alive today and therefore not part of Islamic tradition), so l’d urge some discernment: Number of Huris a Muslim Will Get in Jannah - Islam Question & Answer
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My impression is: If man and wife are both good people, they will remain married in heaven too. The human wife will surpass the Houri creation (the Virgins of Paradise) by a degree or more in beauty, the human wife thus perfected in Paradise will be known as a Queen of Paradise. This is an important distinction but the Islam Q&A site casts some doubt on this. I’m not really piqued about this myself.
This is backed up in what you quoted by the way, where you said:
Paradise is not only about individual pleasures but also about companionship, love, and joy shared with family members and loved ones.
“Enter Paradise, you and your wives, in happiness.” (Qur’an 43:70)
This verse suggests that believers will be reunited with their loved ones, enjoying both physical and emotional fulfillment in paradise.
MY CONCLUSIONS:
- The Houris are a separate creation
- They are an archetype (if you read Plato, that is the sense)
- They have never been seen by humans nor spirits, and thus obviously, never been touched - so they are as virginal as you will find. I’m unsure if even angels have seen them, though l’ve read there are angels that aren’t even aware that we humans exist, they are so far removed from worldly matters.
- They have transparent skin, possibly giving the appearance a woman gives in this world when she wears lace, i.e. seeing through the skin to the veins and bones. Obviously it’ll be way better than that thought.
- Even their clothing is archetypal, and thus worth more than the entire earth, literally the entire earth, all the good things you’ve ever seen and can ever see, are worth less than a Houri’s veil.
- I have also read, but can no longer trace the saying, that when a man first sees a Houri, he will just stare at her transfixed in awe for several decades
CLOSING NOTES:
33 YEARS OLD etc:
You then say:
3. Eternal Youth, Strength, and Desire
Islamic texts also describe how believers in paradise will be restored to a state of eternal youth and vigor, with enhanced physical abilities, including an increased capacity for pleasure.
The Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said: “In Paradise, the believer will be given such and such strength in intercourse.” Someone asked, “O Messenger of Allah! And will he be able to do that?” He said, “He will be given the strength of a hundred men.” (Sunan Ibn Majah, 4337)
Another narration states that inhabitants of paradise will be 33 years old, the prime age of youth and vitality (Musnad Ahmad, 10831).
These hadiths indicate that paradise is not only a place of rest but also a realm where human desires and pleasures are enhanced and eternal.
MY REPLY: The only thing that makes me ponder about this is the fixed age of 33 for all of us, the rest seems to naturally flow from what one would expect.
MARTYRS:
I think you also made mention of “Jihad” saying that 72 houris are a reward for Jihad, but l cannot find where you wrote that - maybe l misread.
There are different statements about this subject. I have read that martyrs get Houris, but a very common belief, in the second greatest book of Hadith (Sahih Muslim) is that martyrs will be transformed into Green Birds which nestle in chandeliers near the Throne of Allah, and remain in perpetual bliss thereat.
I personally don’t feel shame to say Islam teaches that martyrs get Houris. I think it’s a very conflicted mindset that feels shame at this and relief at saying they get transformed into Green Birds.
However, l feel more inclined to think martyrs get transformed into Green Birds that are in eternal rapture, nestled in chandeliers around the Throne of Allah - because that seems logical given that Allah is perfection and the closer you get to him, the better.
The metaphor for the Sufi spiritual quest is the Nightingale migrating to, and singing its heart out for, the Light / Rose, which is the Soul of Allah, and thus the concept of the Green Bird harmonises with this.
Here is the hadith:
Sahih Muslim 1887 - The Book on Government - كتاب الإمارة - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
We asked 'Abdullah about the Qur’anic verse:" Think not of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead. Nay, they are alive, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord…" (iii. 169). He said: We asked the meaning of the verse (from the Holy Prophet) who said: The souls, of the martyrs live in the bodies of green birds who have their nests in chandeliers hung from the throne of the Almighty. They eat the fruits of Paradise from wherever they like and then nestle in these chandeliers. Once their Lord cast a glance at them and said: Do ye want anything? They said: What more shall we desire? We eat the fruit of Paradise from wherever we like. Their Lord asked them the same question thrice. When they saw that they will continue to be asked and not left (without answering the question). they said: O Lord, we wish that Thou mayest return our souls to our bodies so that we may be slain in Thy way once again. When He (Allah) saw that they had no need, they were left (to their joy in heaven).
JIHAD:
**As l say, you mentioned Jihad somewhere, in connection with Houris. Let me explain: Jihad in Islam means war, struggle. The Outer Jihad is physical, the Inner Jihad is spiritual. **
The Inner Jihad is called the Greater Jihad, the Outer Jihad is called the Lesser Jihad (though it seems way harder, being chopped up and shot at etc.)
As the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
Muslim tradition reports that, when Muhammad returned from battle, he told his followers “We return from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.” The greater jihad is the more difficult and more important struggle against one’s ego, selfishness, greed, and evil. [Source: United Nations Alliance of Civilizations - https://www.unaoc.org/repository/Esposito_Jihad_Holy_Unholy.pdf]
Once, upon returning from a battle, the Prophet Muhammad said to his companions, “We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad; the jihad of the soul.” Here the term jihad refers to the spiritual exercise of opposing the lower self. This is referred to as the greater jihad since people spend their entire lives struggling against the base desires within them …
Jihad is also used to refer to the pilgrimage to Mecca. When Aishah, the wife of the Prophet, was asked about the jihad of women, she said, “Your jihad is to make the pilgrimage.”
… The term jihad is also used to refer to speaking truth to those in power, so in Islam government oversight is a form of jihad. [Source: Egypt's Dar Al-Ifta | The Meaning of Jihad in Islam ]
Jihad is nothing to do with the modern phenomenon known as “Islamism” which is political Islam and in its extreme form engenders political violence which is one definition of terrorism. Moreover suicide is prohibited in Islam on pain of eternal hellfire (as with Catholicism, possibly other religions too).
So, please be assured Jihad to us is pretty much the same struggle as it is to you: a physical act to restore justice using moral methods, and a perpetual lifelong spiritual war against your inner Jinn, we must transform it from a demon, a Shaytaan Jinn aka an outcast Jinn - to a “Moomin” Jinn aka a Believer Jinn ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVRt35oI2EM ) - we are each assigned one demon (though schizos may acquire extra ones and as l’ve said elsewhere, “ghosts” are that personal Jinn that remains after death, impersonating the deceased). So anyway, the inner Jihad is the Greater Jihad and it is against our inner badness.
- P.S. There are varying interpretations but it has been said that only 1 in 1,000 humans will reach heaven. The number will be like white hairs on a black bull. It is also however said that Gog and Magog (maybe when they finally errupt from underground, when Jesus the Messiah returns) will outnumber the rest of mankind by 1000:1, though that sort of implies a few of Gog and Magog will be good people? Gog and Magog are sons of Noah via Japheth (peace be upon both of them), and are thus humans, but they are monsters, they are probably the Trolls and Goblins of North European and Asian legends. Some are covered in red hair etc. I digress.
Dear friend, l hope this helped.