Life After Death?

I’m thinking WAY too much today. But I felt like writing it down. If you are extremely religious, dont read unless you are an open person.

Now, no matter how religious you are, I would bet that just about everyone here believes in life after death in some way. I am not religious (i did go to catholic school till 8th grade so I do know something), but I certainly believed in the afterlife. It just seems so “unfair” to us if there wasn’t one. However, I got into a thinking moment sparked from my writing seminar on unknown human beliefs. Now, if you are religious, you dont need any proof or logic to affirm this other than it’s in scripture or you have faith. But the Greeks believed in their own mythology (that is wrong as we know today), and going by facts, there aren’t many reliable facts showing much support for religions. Even religious books do not attempt to explain how the afterlife works, they just tell you it’s there. If you are by-the-book religious, I know that you dont need an explanation. You believe it. But is this just wishful thinking? To go further you really have to clear your mind of things you think are facts when in reality they aren’t facts.

So then we have the things we know. If you are strait up against the proof of evolution, then I suggest not to go further. Evolution happened. The evidence is there, and we can even see evolution in short-term experiments. We know it happens. In science, there is also evidence that humans are not superior to any other living thing, meaning we were subject to the same evolution. This can be seen by how closely our genes match other species. Knowing this, I think of how life was created according to many scientific evidence/experiments. Life was created from non-life, it’s in every biology textbook. Life is made up of organic chemistry and we know life’s main organic molecules can be made from non-living, non-organic molecules; we’ve done it. So then these evolve until they are able to replicate themselves using genetics; that is when life officially began according to the major scientific community.

So here’s my dilemma. We, humans, are basically a fancy holding chemical molecules. How could the afterlife exist before there was life? When these chemicals changed into life (which is marked by when things were able to inherit traits from the previous), it doesn’t make sense for the existence of an afterlife to just suddenly pop up.

Also, what exactly is a soul? Chemically, everything we think, our feelings, morals, everything can be explained using cognitive science. Most people think that when you expire, you can still think like you do and have the same personality. But, these are all created from a complicated build of chemicals, which are concrete things that wont move from this world.

Lastly, we know “non-living” things cant die. Since we are not much different than these, what makes us think we are on a different path? What? Do organic molecules get to go to an afterlife and non-organic dont? Doesn’t seem logical.

I am for sure hoping this is not the case, believe me. But I dont like just accepting something because it seems right or because the opposite is too scary to think about.

And God said, “Let there be light, and there was light”.

This is about the most accurate reporting of the beginning of the universe, or it wasn’t. Once this had occured, either eternal life was injected into reality, giving us souls and afterlife and the papacy, or it wasn’t.

If it was, then i believe it would be safe to assume that afterlife is a reality, with ourselves God’s things until we die, and then probably after too. The only question is who goes where, and frankly since i don’t know the options, i don’t really care yet.

If it wasn’t, then life occured spontaneously, nothing more than a spark in a very dark cave. The survival instinct suggests that no life, ever, has been happy about going to find out … i’m glad to see we all agree on something. However, humanity is a crowning glory. The whole universe cannot be compared to a single mind, needing millions of years of developement to contain it adequately.

This mind is a hope, that possibly something does echo into the hereafter, something that resembles what we think we are. So from that point of view, its a better than even chance that something exists after we die.

Another thought is that we are in a universe with laws, and one of the laws relates how no energy is ever lost to the universe, and mind is the purest form of energy that i can think of, so i wonder if energy dipersal is also what you consider afterlife?

There are answers to the questions you bring up.

First, I am a Christian. No, I am not am idiot. I put my faith in a God that has proven Himself to be reliable in His word and His creation.

Your assumption that there cannot be an afterlife because of its inexistence prior to the first life is a categorical mistake:

Before there was life, there was God. God always has and always will exist in a realm that we know nothing about: Eternity. The world and universe that we live in is contaned in a box, so to speak, of time and space. This physical universe limited by the factors of height, length, depth, weight, and time is a only a small part of the totality of God’s existence. God put this universe into motion, and will eventually put an end to it. God is outside of physical space.

The theological term would be transcendence. That is, seperate and above in order of existence.

The real question here is why… Why did God decide to create this special place? Was God lonely? Of course not. He had perfect relationship and balance within the trinity, but he desired to have an object on which to place His ultimate, divine love. That’s us. We are the objects of the affections of the one that created us. The bible supports this when it says, “God is Love.” If you want a perfect definition of love, then look at God.

So what does this have to do with the “afterlife?” Well, according to God, afterlife is simply an ending to this temporary, physical existence, and a new beginning in eternity. Think of it, in eternity there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there are no limitations of size, shape, or distance. Unimaginable.

So what does God have to say about this life? Well, sometimes God can seem like a far off entity, unable to relate with us. This is totally untrue- God has revealed Himself through His son, Jesus Christ, that lived, died and was ressurected nearly 2000 years ago. His only desire is that you would recognize your standing as a sinful person, then repent of your sin, and receive Jesus as your Lord and Savior, thus coming into a loving and right relationship with your creator.

If you freely choose to rebel and refuse the love and forgiveness of the creator of the universe, you face the recompense of your own sin, which is death. Not simply a physical death, but a spiritual and ultimate death, a type of quarantine from the good things of God. It is up to you.

Whether you choose to recieve Jesus or not, you will retain conscienceness for all eternity, either in paradise, or torment.

To recieve Jesus as your Lord simply pray in your own words: Lord, I ask you to forgive me for my sins against you. I believe that You sent Your son to die for me and that He rose from the grave. I ask you to come into my heart now, and give me a new heart. Please help me to live for You with all of my heart for the rest of my life. Amen.

I want to make two points.

First if we are biologically no different from the animals, and life is just a matter of genes and evolution, then whatever questions we have of life can be discerned in the other animals too. But do you see or have evidence to suggest that animals asked themselves such questions?

Does the fact that we have genes and subjected to evolution precludes us from being different from the rest of the biological world? What if humans are the only beings to have a soul? To have a conscience? To be able to create and communicate abstract notions such as rights, property, justice, beauty, etc etc.

Never mind about how this happened for the moment. Just look at the facts and evidences and your own experiences and say whether it is possible, or that there is no contradiction, that humans are not just mere animals.

Secondly we are not merely to believe.

The 9/11 hijackers truly and sincerely believed in what they believe, even to die for it. It was a demonstration of true faith, but it is also a demonstration of the outcome of a false belief.

You only believe if it is true, and in no way does belief makes anything true. Truth is the foundation of any true beliefs. (But you can believe what you want to believe, if truth is not an issue to you.)

But how then do we know the truth of the afterlife? What evidence do we have of it? Are evidences good enough? And if evidence is what is sought, would not the testimonies of someone who is living the afterlife after dying on earth be admissible evidence? But if not how do you seek to know the truth or otherwise of the afterlife?

This is where the mistake is. Cognitive science hopes to explain how we think, our morals, ectera, ectera- yet so far it has had a very tuff going.

As a neruoscientist to locate just one memory. In fact there was a funny story about a scientist a mouse an a maze. The scientist thought he knew where a mouse stored its memory of a maze. So he cut out that peice… the mouse still ran the maze… so he cut out a bigger peice… and the mouse still ran the maze. Eventually the mouse couldn’t move at all- but as long as it could move it could run the maze. Perhapse memories are non-physical.

To paraphrase a dude named Lacatoche: Every sciencentific program has a metaphyisical core that it will protect. It just so happens that today cognitive events being purely physical is one of those cores. There is really no good evidence for it.

And if memories are non-physical, then why should we assume they die with the body.

They probably go on for at least a week. :stuck_out_tongue: Woops, afterlife an eternal life are two different things! Oh well, to paraphrase a very dead Greek dude named epicurus, Eat, Drink, and be Merry- for tomarrow we may not exist.

I would believe in life after death for the following reasons:

1.We are all unique
2. Isn’t it because we all have some baggage to carry of dismay from our previous life?
3. Memory, just like a thought is an image that is stored in our mind and because this mind has a direct connection with the spirit, so the spirit keeps an account of everything.
4. The mind is connected to the spirit because they are both, non-physical, no quantity, occupy no space, and are both hidden yet perceived by us. When we die, the physical elements go to the physical and the mental (memory or thoughts) go to the Higher Consciousness.
5. I believe that the spirit enters the body at the precise moment a baby is born. This way the spirit knows where it’s going, it doesn’t enter the body before because the baby hasn’t formed fully in which case it would not know where it’s headed or if in the right direction. For the same reason I believe that cloning should not be there because there would be no spirits for the cloned and that would create chaos in the spirit world. So, they might just wipe us out and create another species altogether, that’s kinda funny but whatever. We should take an example from seeing the barren Mars that once supported life.
6. I believe that as soon as we die, the spirit leaves the body and lives and we remember everything in the spirit world, but not in this world so we can live freely here. If we’re too good or too bad then the spirit gets divided into two and this I believe is why we have twins and ‘two of a kind’ respectively. And this is also why we see population increase.
7. The individual spirit is what you can call a part of God and their collection is God. This spirit, consciousness, mind or God is the justice system this life ordains to look after us all so that life can proceed fairly for all. We have free will and the spirit exercises fate. Therefore, where our act is free, life becomes fated BECAUSE of that free act.
8. I believe that the spirit wants us to be humane in general which means that we exercise responsibility in all that we do. That is why I believe there have been messengers of God on earth at times, so life can be peaceful and hormonious for all, other than that they should not be worshipped and neither should any God, because that would not mean anything. These people I think came so close to their spirit that they identified with it completely and so they spread the message of humanity - being humane in all that we do. If people have made religions around their sayings and created holy books, the message I believe is the same - just live your life responsibly. There is no good or bad 'cause they are relative terms, so just let responsibility be your guide. I would say let that be your Holy book. This is what I believe on how we should live life.
9. There is no such thing as death. Death actually comes to keep us alive so we can change form. This is because I believe that being energy we can only survive through regular transformations which is why, “Change is the law of nature.” Why this is so, is I believe because “perfection stinks” but we all like perfection or strive for it but with nowhere else to go, it would get stale and “stink” and hence die taking us with it. So, “Change is the law of nature.”
10. Why we have to keep living? Because I believe that we live inside somebody’s body like germs do inside some, on an organ or tissue that we call our earth. So we need to keep moving or changing endlessly. To the extent that we live harmoniously, we’re environmentally friendly, otherwise not. So we are harmless germs but that which can become harmful and so we need to be environmentally friendly. Which is why we can’t travel far as well.
11. I believe light is the food energy that fuels this body. Ha! Ha! Don’t laugh! And plants and trees do not have consciousness like we do, that is they do not know that they exist, but we do. Plants are there essentially to nourish the earth and so they photosynthesize and process stuff downwards essentially not upwards, or why don’t the indoor plants lose a lot of soil, why does the earth not shrink and disappear soon? And just like the heart and liver need to keep going, so does the earth. Boy! I was rightly born on earth day. Okay, okay, enough! :smiley:

And what evidence do YOU have that they DON’T ask themselves such questions?

One possible line of evidence is that animals dont seem to have a language - they may have signs and signals, but they do not have a language. Also if we discern that animals are capable of language and even of abstract thoughts that does not prove that they actually have a language.

Do we see chimpanzees or dogs or dolphins sitting/swimming around and have a discussion?

Of course you can hypothesized that animals communicate telepathically, or that animals do question themselves of their existence, and its meaning, but do so only solipsistically. But then the onus is on you to provide the evidence to support your hypothesis.

On the other hand if we are to apply Occam’s razor then we can already conclude on the prima facie evidence that animals do not question themselves “such questions”.

PS: In fact I do hold a hypothesis that humans and animals do communicate telepathically, but it is a different kind of communication then the one we are using here. It is just like music communicates, but of emotions and feelings rather than abstract ideas.

What erks me about statements like this, is that if god is all powerful and created our dimension from outside of space and time, where does god exist? If we can’t know where he exist and how long he has existed or who created god, isn’t it just as probable that our universe has always, for eternity been composed of matter in it’s simplest form. Now, I don’t mean quarks. I mean the most fundemental breakdown possible, and that motion in the universe just simply is.


Who is to say that the creator created us out of love. What disproves the hypothesis that the creater is an extra terrestrial who created us out of some cruel experiment to see what we do when we are given rationality. Isn’t it possible that we are in some super inteligent beings version of a fishtank, and the reason that there is suffering in our world is that his parents called him down for dinner an eternity (for us) ago, and he forgot about us. In other words, what justification do you have to think that god created man out of love besides the bible?

Why does there have to be life after death? Seems to me that this is more wishful thinking as opposed to rational reflection on the evident.

In all simplicity, it seems to me that life just ends and consciousness along with. This is the extent in which we witness and we cannot theorize any further more than what is merely blind proposition. And not only that, but oh how easy it would be to theorize an “afterlife” when there is nothing even remotely evident that such an “afterlife” is even feasible. An argument from ignorance is really flexible in that aspect.

I see afterlife theories as intellectual toupees, dentures, face-lifts, … Anything to deny the deteriorating impact nature has upon us. However, looked upon honestly, finality is the most probable conclusion. Just not a “feel good” conclusion that seems to be desired.

I favor accepting just an ending to consciousness and I am content with that. Seems like this is the last thing that many are willing to accept in spite of it being the most evident conclusion we could reach based on what can be empirically observed.

So please, someone fill me in with some fancy poetics and dreams regarding what is contrary to the evident. The evident being finality witnessed on a constant basis, yet denied and ignored in favor of immortal ambition advocated in ancient myths.

Look animals are different from us only because they do not have our degree of intelligence and imagination. And that is because, they satisfy their emotions immediately. Our intelligence and imagination to that degree only comes from the fact that many a times our emotions go unsatisfied that creates a chemical imbalance in our brain or mind and the result is a higher degree of intelligence and imagination. This is what I think. Other than all this, all animals are essentially like us except in their degree of intelligence and imagination. I wrote an essay on it, animals and humans, but I wrote it before I did some research on schizophrenia. Now I need to go and correct that essay of mine, I’ve been meaning to but haven’t done it yet. I don’t know what Occam’s razor means, I’m not a philosopher.

Shoot! When I said above that when emotions go unsatisfied… what I really meant is that when we go through some emotional turbulence (not unsatisfied emotions) then that can create a chemical imbalance leading to higher intelligence and vivid imagination.