Logic and Absolutes ( Not Vodka )

He would have been wrong about that.

And “A is A” is not a “word game”, but a fundamental word rule to maintain in speech. The phrase “A is A”, in more philosophical terms is merely the prior Hebrew/Moses notion, “it is what it is” - an emphasis on accepting reality regardless of prior preachings.

Ecmandu and Orbie seem to want to “play the word game” by claiming, “A is not always A” (obfuscating literally anything ever stated) and/or “it is not necessarily what it is” or even in Ecmandu’s case, “something is necessarily not what it necessarily is”, obfuscating all forms of logic and reasoning into merely mental noise.

Once the mind gets scrambled, who appears to be playing whom gets scrambled as well. Both sides get earnestly accused by the other. The “Tweaking Definitions” thread explains why - the destruction of a society so as to favor insipid changes while no one is looking.

Perception. A physical, quantifiable process whereby we can measure light going into eyeballs, pressure on the skin, sensations on the tongue, particles coming into the nose etc…

This is the same across the board for everyone other than the blind and a few exceptions.

Perspective. How those sensations make you feel.

One is uniform, objective, standardized, and physical.

The other is varied, subjective, and if it’s physical, then it’s in the part of the physicalist discourse where they’re referring to the unobservable things like neural states.

Logic deals in symbols that must be stipulated to represent the objects to which they refer. Once that stipulation is made, and if we agree that any object and all it’s properties can be quantified, then for all intents and purposes, with enough symbols at our disposal to represent states of being and functions for these objects, then yes…logic can be universal. It can be absolute.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA[/youtube]

What, are you uncomfortable with self reference when it comes to whole sets? You know as well as I do, that A=A and A=-A, one is the identity property because of visual acuity (or lack thereof) and the other is the statement of fact that those A’s cannot possible be the same, they are spatially separated, they have different atoms… perfection is a matter of acuity and a lack of acuity, it’s a sweet spot, a balance… now balance is absolute, so we can make objective claims, but to suggest that A=A is only half the story James.

It amazes me as to how many Americans have been taught that “A is A” means one A compared to another A. That is never what it meant or means.

“A is A” merely means that anytime you use the term or thought called “A” (in this case), throughout the rest of any thoughts, any reference to “A” should be (by rule of thought) the exact same A as referenced before. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with different A’s. They are the same “A”.

The interesting question is, “Who is it that taught, obviously intentionally, an incorrect conception of the Identity principle to so very many young, unwitting Americans?

And why do you have a desire to be anti-logical?

James, they weren’t taught that, they observed it… what people are taught is what you’re spouting off. _This A <---- is That A but A=A is a falsity outright.

I would rather believe that they were merely naive and taken advantage of rather than just totally stupid.

Once again:
If someone says;
“George saw a girl. Then George said ‘hello’ to the girl.”

The Identity principle merely states that the first mention of George (an “A”) is referring to the same George as the second mention. And the same with the mention of the girl (a different “A”).

If you can’t understand even that … well … not much hope…

You mean A = B.

And you failed to acknowledge my formation ___This A <-------- is that A ___ using the pointing gesture that only wolves, dogs, cats and humans use. A=A is nonsense. There is no way that one A equals the other A. An A can only equal itself. It’s a matter of sensory acuity that allows us to formulate these equalities… take a, electron microscope to those A’s and they don’t look anything alike. Perfection is an interesting topic James… I often use the analogy that I ask for an inch and a half of room for my coffee so I don’t spill it, because I try to help the environment by not using lids, but you can’t sterilize those long coffee urns without adding toxins to your system (they’re too thin to wash), so I still use cardboard cups…

But if it’s within a half an inch either way, I call it “perfect”. There is perfect in life, it’s just a margin of error mostly…

A=A or A is A is an A equating itself.

But is it really, phon? Is it really?

Answer me that!

Yes.

:-k

I don’t get it.

A tautology.

The ultimate truth is always, and absolutely must be, a tautology.
“I am that I am”
“It is what it is”
“A is A”
…all the same most fundamental truth.

The way the concept of the word ‘absolute’ is working entirely depends on the context of the aphorism in which it is used. You will find a lot of contradiction in Nietzsche if you cross-equivocate the concept between aphorisms and epigrams.

Not to say he does not contradict himself, or that he always does so accidentally (good eye, Erik). Only that when discussing a concept in Nietzsche you have to be careful what you do with it and where you put it, what you explain further with it, especially.

For instance, I have seen communists use material from Twilight which is in favor of socialist revolution (N speaks fondly about it here), to support other socialist principles which N clearly does not espouse, anywhere.

The WTP theory can be said to be absolutely true, but not because the statement ‘the WTP is true’ is true. The WTP is the prerequisite condition for any kind of truth whatsoever, any kind of processing-of-information at any level, whether atomic, molecular, biological, what have you. It is the most fundamental ontological fact before all else. It is that hubristic rebellion Saully saw on his mushrooms. It is why there is something rather than nothing.

Fiddling with the meager statement ‘the WTP is true’ is irrelevant, because even if it were false it would still be true.

For something cannot be incorrect or false or wrong without some kind of discriminating power at work… some kind of interpretive scheme that has taken possession of the world for its purposes and found, as a contingency to the physiological plan of its own body and the perspective results this creates, the world to be a certain way and not another, declaring ‘this is false and that is true!’

Zee veel to powar, and nossing besides.

On that note, there are plenty of epistemological problems with perspectivism or what is sometimes called epistemological relativism.

You do realize the ‘A’ is just symbolic notation, not a real thing. The represented rule is that whatever is, is what it is.

Although we have never experienced two identical instances, events or things, we cannot prove they are ontologically impossible, either. It isn’t logically impossible for there to be two identical things occupying two different spatio-temporal frameworks.

Space and identity, … where a thing exists and where a thing’s ‘body’ ends and the space that it is in, begins… depends, by definition, on there being some actual space independent of the things which occupy it. If that is the case, there would have to be a smallest, indivisible unit to being; the very edge of the body of the thing, the smallest two things that have a space between them and which define the end of the extended body in space. This is not what some of the field theory suggests as far as I understand it.

James, you’re going to chime in so go ahead, do it. But no equations man.

At the limit of discernibility, there can not be any experience of uniqueness, to make such space possible. To argue the point by defining such a field where space is a defining moment in time as a sine quo non, goes back to the closed universe mentioned
above. In that way. The topical approach of surface gradients characterized by a möbius type transform, may make it a possibility. But as a required condition, it may fail. As the limit is approached.

The similarity to the cosmological surprise of the black hole, as re-mitting pulled in material. Per the Schwarchchild effect may be analogous.

This is strictly musing, and am also curious, and would be also interested in James feedback here, if any.

Or Orbie.