I wonder if this subject is worth revisiting?
Contrary to deist Miklos Jako in"Confronting Believers,“God is not above logic! 
Theists beg questions as to His existence. They special plead to exempt Him from being held to the same moral standard as we and from the questions what caused the causer and what “designed” the designer.” They should first try to overcome the challenges of the presumption of naturalism and the ignostic-Ockham arguments. ](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7c349bf1053f368a5729d053e1e91215f22ce66c.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
Yes, reason and logic cannot explain the incoehrent! 
Skepticgriggsy, we can not hold God to our moral standards, we fall short of His ethics. There are things God knows we can’t comprehend in our mortal state. That is what is wrong with trying to understand God’s thoughts. Something along the line of ants expecting we humans to understand their way of doing things. In basic areas yes, in higher reasoning situations, no.
There is no such thing as a rational existence. I’m not associated with any religions but the idea of god makes me content that my life isn’t useless and that death isn’t the end of all that defines me. If I were a fully rational person, I’d probably end up being depressed as a result of a lack of purpose, in contradiction to my rationality. Anyways if god is not understandable, it could very well be for the same reason that knowledge breaks down at the big bang. What was before, if time is infinite, is unknowable.
If life has a purpose, it is to be content that you are. If there is no god, the idea of god is still reassuring. If there is a god, there is yet nothing to lose. The mess that religion makes is unrelated to god as a concept.
I agree…thats why I hold to the Gospels in the Bible rather man made religions. Their doctrines undermine God sometimes.
Then I ask that nobody attempt to logically or reasonably suppose God exists.
If there is no logic or reason to God,
then the concept of God is completely self-defeating, implausible, nonsensical, and irrational.
You can’t even propose that there is such a thing, much less discuss it in any way.
It is an attempt to get out of explaining God logically and reasonably
but ends up throwing the very possibility of the concept of God out altogether.
Bane, would you please read my original post and not use my subject line for your personal soundbites?
I can see nothing but logic and reason to explain any source of intelligent life.
Ask me any question about Gods personality and I can answer logically or at least show continuity.
So, do you view the God Jehova as being an intelligent supreme creator of all in this universe?
No written man made version of God is accurate, God is proven by his creation and its nature, not novelistic writhing. God is far more universal then text.
Ask a more detailed and intelligent question and you will get the same…
If this is the case, how are we to give description to God? No doubt we have limits to the quality of questions that can be asked or answers to be give. Maybe we will never develop to that high of a standard of perception.
What would it mean for logic and reason to explain someone? Do logic and reason explain me?
Uccisore, I was referring to the tangibility or lack thereof of God. People with a non-belief of a supreme supernatural being ask of proof of the existence of God. I can give none except through my testaments of my experiences. That is not suffiecient for them. If you have a reasonable, logical way of proving the existence of God that would satisfy a non-believer, it would be welcome by me.
I think that a belief in some particular thing’s existence (like the belief in the existence of something which refers to itself as “uccisore,” for example) can be reasonably explained. Maybe that’s what he means.
I believe that my truck exists because I remember buying it; because the title to it is in a file in the drawer to my left; because I can walk into the garage and see it; etc. I believe that my keyboard exists because, among other things, I am typing on it at this moment. I believe that atoms exist, albeit with less confidence than the belief I have that my car and keyboard exist because, given scientifc evidence, the existence of atoms is a reasonable explanation for why my car and keyboard and other concrete entities in the world are observable in the first place. When I observe my car, my keyboard, etc., I am in fact observing a conglomeration of atoms, i.e., tiny, individually invisible-to-the-naked-eye entities.
These are all reasonable beliefs.
As above, the effect of the causality proves daily who and what God and his plan is, nothing is hidden, only obscured by religions.
No need to read anything to understand Truth, did you need to read something to tell you that you should feel guilty for hurting someone for your own benefit?
The Truth of God was not known to me until I was physically told as a child. Only through the years through study, prayer and enlightement from both have I gotten a little better understanding of Jesus and The Father in Heaven. There is still a lot I don’t know. It is meted to me almost on a daily basis.
Nothing is hidden Tortoise. I know God and all his plans. So does Kingdaddy. It is so clear. I guess you’re just stupid. 
So is everybody else in the world that can’t figure these simple things out.
Please give me real world examples of how cause and effect does not fully explain God and his personality or how it’s possible for an intelligent creator of all things to be contradictory and still powerful.
Give me any hidden Truth / question (to you) and I will show you where it is obvious to the most casual intelligent observer who isn’t trying to make their own truth.
The key to seeing and understanding is to give up trying to control the Truth, once you do everything is illuminated.
The burden of proof is on theist. Science has explained the laws of physics, the laws of nature, and has taken us right back to a fraction of a second after the B/B. The thing that sustains a lot of theist, is the question of what was there before the B/B, or what caused it.
The answer really is to a certain extent simple;there was no before. Time and space began at the B/B.
The question of what caused it; an incredible dense and hot tiny thing called the ‘‘singularity’’ that for some reason started to expand at faster than the speed of light, which astrophysicist call the Big Bang. And still the expansion is occurring today with no end in sight. In other words, physicists say the expansion will go on until there is nothing left of our cosmos. To most people on this forum all this is old news. But there are still fundies out there who have no idea at all what I’m talking about. This post is aimed at you.
God does not defy logic or reason. God is rational. Although we can not directly know Him and will never fully wrap our minds around Him, His message about Himself is simple – love. His message is shared in word (reason) and deed (by example)…
The rest of your post is referring to whether or not Christians’ deeds/example line up with our word/reason. Maybe you are thinking they don’t have to because we’ll never be perfect. Maybe you are saying deeds/example will never be perfect… never explain His Message perfectly – and likewise, word/reason will never be perfect… never explain His Message perfectly.
The point of His Message is that He loves us anyway, regardless of our imperfection. He communicates His Message through our imperfection. Don’t beat yourself up, He paid that price for you on the cross. Don’t let it push you further away from Him – let Him pull you right back to Him, your sins past/present/future are all atoned for, you are a new creature in His eyes at every moment – don’t even look back (and don’t beat yourself up if you do… just look to Him loving you anyway). So, the Message can get across perfectly through our imperfection… that doesn’t mean we go screw up just so we can show others that God loves us anyway, of course.
Without logic and reason, we can not communicate this to others except by example. On the Internet, that’s impossible, since we ‘behave’ only in words, which are born using logic and reason.