The “reason” why organisms disobey “God” is because their power becomes their will, which is lust. Lust for result. Therefor, the power becomes its own will, in and of itself, wishing to control both itself and its creator. If it destroys its creator, it destroys itself. If it distances itself from the true-will, it goes mad. At the same time, as it focuses only upon result, it begins to overpower others, and the power outweighs the true-will, thus both becomes imbalanced and imoderate, then causing clash and disorder.
I will explain more clearly about more specific points, if you wish to ask.
Why all the guilt? What is sex without lust? What is life without sex? What is humankind without sex or religion for that matter which would not exist without procreation/sex driven by lust. Yea, love is in their too but what about lusting after the one you love?
I say, believe in a God who requires lust as a daily dose of normal. God does not ask us to be celibate, fearful creatures who read bibles all day and lead a virtuous life as monks and nuns with no lust.
I lust for life - sexual or not… I find no guilt in that which makes the world go around: LUST.
[i]
Intense or unrestrained sexual craving.
An overwhelming desire or craving: a lust for power.
Intense eagerness or enthusiasm: a lust for life.[/i]
Interesting thoughts. But humans are not so raw in their life. It that was the case dont you think God gave us a bad hand to start with? He basically doomed us from the start?
Our flesh is sin and lust. It seeks to pleasure itself. God will only allow those who have the strength of will to overcome the flesh to have everlasting life.
Go back to the account in Genesis. Why did God kick Adam and Eve out of the garden? He said because He could no longer trust them to obey Him. They now know the difference between good and evil because of eating the fruit. So… Instead of God condemning the people of His creation He instead offered salvation. For those who could prove themselves worthy, God is offering ever lasting life. The tree of immortality is in the Garden of Eden. We are testing ourselves for the right to partake of this Tree. This is why they were kicked out. God said He could not trust them to not eat of that Tree and become like Him, so He kicked them out. And placed a sword that faced every way over the tree and Cherubim at the gates of Eden to guard it.
When our flesh was created it was created like the animals. Given to fleshly desires that God placed into them. When we ate the apple we were no longer innocent of our flesh, and the only thing that saved us was the special fact we are created in His image and God does not wish for us to perish.
There may be a lot more in store for us later on… but only for those who can prove that they can transcend their flesh.
I am interested in hearing more explanation from you. Please provide more.
What if the Bible was just a bunch of stories passed down to teach us life lessons? I have an inkling that you really thought that Jonah was swallowed by the whale and lived to tell about it or women are still unclean, or that the seas were parted or that (perhaps) we should just go sacrifice a lamb in the neighborhood cul-de-sac and get it over with.
Am I just too open minded here? I read the Bible as a group of fables and stories to teach us, so discussing lust may not be a good topic for such a wanton woman as the Bessy, eh? Little do you know that I am just a regular mom and granny with a big brood who happens to have lustful thoughts on occasion. Am I so wrong? The flesh is not sin and lust but a lovely god given vehicle for showing love through our sexuality. Sex is not a sin, but a beautiful human gift.
I am woman, hear me lust. I just don’t see the point of this holier -than- thou guilt trip given to us by our parents and/or parishes and temples making us afraid to embrace our humanness. Be moral, be monogomous,
but be human in the presence of your God… He would want nothing less.
“only for those who can prove that they can transcend their flesh”
I think that it gets more complicated then that.
The animal self:
The animal self is the foolish might which has not been cursed with the responsability of self-awareness. It is the secret words that you say to someone only when they cannot hear you. It is your most beautiful part, requiring the most skill to use, covered shamefully by civilization, and flashed naked for a moment by those – who tempt with the end but blind one to the means. The animal-self is the forces, the beings, the characters and the living things which must understand and make oaths up towards the true-will.
The finest of will – the true-will – is where all powers should be set within. Those who have mastered themself no-longer have anything within themselves which can hurt themselves, as they weild skillfully anything put between their hands. Now, and only now, if the person is in this condition, even if he were to be possessed by supernatural power – he would still not be a threat to any true-will, as all power under his mind will be submitted towards the true will.
“God”, this word in itself is the lowest word on earth, as it has been subject to the most untrue foolishness, but in heaven, that very word is the highest, only explosed to the most true and the most wise.
Missused and missinterporated, yet still holding within it many secrets.
The old testimate is no-longer a requirement.
Ancient ritualism is no-longer practiced today in such a sense, though it can still be quite powerful for those who understand and use it properly.
If God created what is unclean, then is he unclean also?
“Unclean” does not mean “bad” or “evil”, though pios fools made it appear to be such. At the same time, a sword cannot be made of raw oar. Sometimes only what is pure can serve a special purpose.
“Lust”, as listed above, is a form of madness and slavery.
Tell me, would you be supressing or would you be liberating a man with a rotted liver, if you were to take away his bottle of wine?
There are many who worship one small part of their own body, as they neglect the other parts of their body, their world and their gods.
Each person has their own true-will; their actions become flawed and impure only when they are distanced from their true-will.
“Chastity” is a freedom from obsession with sex, it does not require virginity or abstanance. What it requires is focus, discipline, self-control and wisdom.
Who said anything about being obsessed with sex? I just see it as a natural part of the life experience and do not attach it to some moral highground to be avoided. I don’t see it as dirty or clean, but just a perfect way of expression - however I don’t see pornography or promiscuity AS sex, but as a perverted view of sex. I avoid pornography like I avoid violence in the media… it simply isn’t a part of my entertainment and if that is what you are referring to - that is altogether a different topic.
Respect yourself, your body, and remain monogomous to the one you love and the unclean feeling you are getting out of this will disappear. Live by the Golden Rule and quit worrying about judgement day.
Are you really serious about focus and discipline with sex? You sound like you feel really guilty about your body, Dan. What precipitated this? Were you raised to believe that sex is bad?
Darn it Dan the title had a ring of prowrestling on it. I lusted to see what you put here, because it sounded wierd and to tempting to pass up. since i am here I may as well enter my two senses worth only two cents probably
Explain how you feel happy to succumb to blackmail, threats and fall for bribery. If God faced any court in the land he would be found guilty of such crimes.
You don’t feel wierd or guilty about wanting to go to heaven and sit comfortably, while good kind souls are being punished in hell for not falling on their knees in fear of this god, during their really short lives compared to eternity.
You don’t think that is the least bit sick or demented? Why would you ever want to follow a god that has to resort to bribes threats and blackmail?
Why would you ever wish to follow a god that cruelly and abusively punishes his disobedient children for eternity?
Most religions are this way, which is why I won’t follow a religion, they don’t make sense, are cruel and hypocritical. But I do have spirituality for a supieror being, like a child to a parent. Not a slave to master.
People took what I said and then misapplied it.
I’m not talking about unreasonable things.
There are allot of people in the world right now who are obsessed.
Humans are overpopulating. Etc.
Rewucki, that’s not a poem.
I suppose who ever could create an entire universe – would spend a few thousand years feeling mentally stimulated by the torment & mind games some Chruch-State merge dreampt up.
Equivilant to a human trying to play frizbey with a pet ameboa.
If someone says something rediculus or stupid about God, that’s not even God whome they are talking about.
As I’ve said before:
“God”, this word in itself is the lowest word on earth, as it has been subject to the most untrue foolishness, but in heaven, that very word is the highest, only explosed to the most true and the most wise.
Missused and missinterporated, yet still holding within it many secrets.
~
Inspired writings are not literal, they are often symbolic.
Inspired visions come from the sub-conscious mind, and this can only express itself to the conscious mind through symbolism.
~
The universal mind isn’t spanking anybody’s ass,
and people have to learn for themselves how to gleen knowledge from out of it.
Even prayers are flawed.
There is no banishing, no casting of a circule, no gnosis, no formal business exchange of spiritual energy, no real understanding, no ESP, no projection. Nothing!
I didn’t come here to review misunderstandings, either.
I’ve wasted too much time in my life already, in critic of a misunderstood and extremely abused set of texts with are all optional to try to learn from, NOT INFORCED BY GOD.
Was Jesus dogmatic?
Did he force people to comply to a set of laws, or did he spend allot of time giving? [Healing, teaching, and verbally “assaulting” religious leaders].
Christianity was obviously meant to be a defiance & purification of ancient religion, setting love and reason above codes and hierarchies.
I agree Bessy. Reading all these posts I’m struck by the theme of dualism which seems to run through them, Sex/God, Lust/Morality ect. I don’t view such a model of religion as very healthy. The Rabbis of Classical Judaism said that what they called “the evil impulse” ie lust, anger and rage, yet when one unmasks the impulse it is not evil at all but neutral, a force which, if properly channeled can bring about good. They argued that withot lust why would be a man beget children, without anger how would a man find it in him to fight against injustice, without a lust for life how could be ever care about our world and sanctity of other living things?
Typical Christian body-hate if I may say so Dan. Not all lust is bad, not all will is evil. If we have no will then we have no desire to change our world. to make moral choices and to protect others. The will for self is the reason why life exists. As Germaine Greer writes: â€Without love there could have been no life. If all were Thanos and no Eros, nothing could come into being. Desire is the cause of all movement and movement is the character of all beingâ€.
Uh Dan, I was replying to Astral’s attitude, questioning Astral’s attitude, not yours, Sheez chill out, cuz I happen to agree quite abit with what you just wrote then Astral’s projection.
This is all the Augustinian argument of man in a struggle with himself. It is the mind -vs- emotion ploy. Augustine promoted it because he couldn’t explain original sin without it. It is now the accepted dogma of christian thought. Man must fight with, and conquer his emotions with the “purity” of mind.
It was a load then, and it still is. What we are is what we ARE. To deny any part of that is to enter into a life of repression. We aren’t here to conquer ourselves but to learn how to balance affective and cognitive in ways that benefit ourselves and those around us.
The life of denial is attractive to some because it lets them climb up on their mini-cross and suffer. Man alienated from himself. What a way to live.
Concerns about influences such as lust can only be of value for those with Christian or similar interests. It would be foolish for secularists since the direction towards the Father is of no concern for secularism.
The purpose of organic life on earth is to transform materiality and energy is necessary for this function. Mother nature makes use of these energy transformations for her own necessary needs. Christianity asserts that Man has a possibility of a higher life through a evolution known as re-birth. Animals are already completely evolved so further evolution is impossible for them.
We are capable of housing enough quality energy and materiality within our being to supply the needs of the earth as is natural for a physical body and the needs of this growing seed of a soul in us that seeks a return to the Father if we don’t waste it. One form of needless waste is by uselessly draining ourselves of these energies and finer materiality into the earth as occurs during lust. Either way nature gets hers. The question is if we can save any for ourselves.
Lust of the eyes needlessly drains the human organism of both the sexual creative energies and the finer materiality that nourish the growing seed of soul being created in us: the beginning of normal conscious evolution in the direction of “meaning” or the Father. If one “loves the world,” their life forces are thrown off as an expression of this love since they are defined by it or as the Buddhists say: “attached.”
When the love is for the Father, then enough of these energies and finer materiality remain within our being to feed us psychologically rather then starve ourselves as we do for the sake of love of the world. The harm of lust then isn’t in sex but the abuse of sex which begins with associating its value with all sorts of negative emotions. The problem isn’t sex but the low quality of emotions that we unconsciously encourage to feed off of its energies. Mr.Spock understood this well in the episode “Amok Time”:
If we experientially understood the relationship between wanting and having, the negative emotions that often inspire the draining effect of lusting would lose its power and attractiveness but how many are capable of such understanding?
Ha ha ha… you have a funny way of stating things. Christ was the last sacrifice. The lamb thing is no longer required. This is why we require Christ for salvation now. Why do you have trouble with Jonah being swallowed by the whale? That whale got him to his destination much faster than would be possible if he went on foot. Are you trying to say that God does not have the power to cause a whale to snap a man up and carry him to a destination and burp him out?
About unclean women… stop and think… what makes a women unclean is her actions. The bible is full of misunderstandings. Moses gave the law to allow men to put their women away and Jesus said this was not good and refuted that. I would not take a great amount of stock in women being unclean as a matter of policy. Just as when Christ and the disciples started to eat the show bread, the Pharisees said that they defiled themselves, but Christ said that it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles not what goes into it.
A woman is defiled by her actions and not by her cycles.
Methinks you are taking too much offense at this. Lust is bad. Sex is not, so long as you adhere to the restrictions God placed on it. Have sex with someone then you must marry them and be faithful. The flesh IS sin. We all will be judged, this means we all know what is right and wrong (apple). You know flesh is sin, you just hate to accept it. I didnt make the rules either. I would love to go out and have a good ole time with all sorts of pretty women but its wrong.
Ok… so you are saying there is no such thing as evil… Because some humans like to rape, kill, and molest. What a fancy notion of a horrible world for you. You can have it and keep it.
Don’t put words in my mouth. When did I mention rape, murder or incest? I believe in monogamous relationships and personally, affairs are ridiculous and are ruining our culture.
LUST
Intense or unrestrained sexual craving.
I can’t have this with my lover???
An overwhelming desire or craving: a lust for power. (or life, or cooking etc etc…
Intense eagerness or enthusiasm: a lust for life. I lust for everything
We have a different view of lust. I didn’t say perverted, inappropriate sex - I said the lusty kind you have with your lover. The “dirty” kind that makes you want to drool just thinking about it. Are you not aware of this, or do you think of your lover as a pure-as-driven-snow June type wearing an apron and “putting up” with sex. I say go for the lust. Btw, you never changed my mind and Jonah to me is still a story as is the apple with Adam and Eve.
I lust for life, music and sex. I am normal. I am going to heaven and having the last laugh. Relaaaax and enjoy and stop worrying so much. Why do you think libido was invented, honey? To avoid? Nah.
Unless you are God, I fail to see how you would be a better Judge than He on who is worthy of everlasting life.
I like the God in mans court idea. This goes to show how stupid people can be when they think they know more than He who created all things. I would recommend that you not be that full of yourself. Heck people say I am full of myself all the time and I am not stupid enough to call God out. I know better than that.
This is everlasting life… I hardly think it would be Heaven with all the evil people running around causing all sorts of trouble.