The non-religious rendition of the above quote can be found in the lyrics of John Lennon’s song “Imagine” … written in 1971 and amplified worldwide again …at least in part … during the 2012 summer Olympics.
I subscribe to both the above religious message and Lennon’s secular ‘message’.
My previous post “The Flock Phenomenon” was written in the spirit of the ILP logo “Provoking Thought Since 2001”
It was not intended to encourage readers to abandon Western Thought and adopt Eastern Thought.
My OP “Integration of Western and Eastern Spirituality” was also aimed at “Oneness”
How is chaos a oneness? And how can it be in the beginning…
And the god which changed it be post whatever this chaos is. Maybe I am picking on semantics a bit there, but chaos is implicitly a division, indeed a continued division of division ad infinitum. There is either that and that is the whole of reality [evidently not], or the means to existence is not chaos.
Phyllo … call me lazy if you like … when I find that another person has eloquently expressed my thoughts and feelings … much better than I have the capacity or the education to do … I submit to his/her words. Such is the case with the lyrics of Lennon’s song Imagine.
I thought I achieved the above when I wrote "I subscribe to …
Chaos must contain duality, or there would be nothing differentiating and nothing moving, an emptiness. I can imagine a general indistinguishable nature to the duality, but i’d envision chaos as randomising, without order, pulling itself apart. what properties would you attribute to it?
Pretty sure imagining there’s no heaven, hell, religion, or anything worth dying for isn’t very much like Jesus’ notion of oneness, all things considered.
Let me repeat … some say repetition is good … even necessary
Individuals see what they want/choose to see. It’s inhumane for me to suggest that what I see is more ‘truthful’ than what my neighbor sees. That’s called arrogance or vanity or some other word with a distasteful connotation.
I see what you mean, but I like to think of the objectness as before the math orother properties. If we remove the edges [cardinality] from things, as we do when we move our observations downwards/inwards from the macroscopic to the quantum, you would eventually arrive at a oneness which contains all things but is not-a-thing. This is then like putty or clay to information, which exists simultaneously [I don’t know why or how].
a kind of formlessness.
Chaos; A thing without properties? Even randomness has properties, which is why randomisation can be achieved in computers via simple formulas. If there does exist such a contradiction, then it would have no properties to make effect.
I suppose it could be an effect in some general sense.
There would then be the objectness of chaos and oneness ~ perhaps polar opposites. This could only be the result of a duality, which would make duality itself eternal/infinite.
Kinda makes sense, that there is no non-duality [don’t tell the buddhists lol] and no time prior to duality, anymore than there could be a first cause.
One more question if I may; is chaos a principle and has no thingness? This would compose a schemata whereby we have an infinite reality, with an object of oneness which denotes the physical reality, and an element of non-objectness which denotes the informational side and subjective/observational perspectives.
For me … the 60’s hold some wonderful memories … even the disappointments. I wanted to be a hippy … my mom wouldn’t allow it. At the time I wanted a pony tail too … had to wait until 2012 for that.
The 60’s were the epicenter of the Cold War … the Western Psyche was imbued with the doctrine … "Communism is evil … China is Communist … therefore China is evil.
If Communism is a derivative of the word commune … might explain why the movement faded into the shadows … and than again maybe not.
If you equate the movement known as commune … with the movement known as kibbutz in Israel … the kibbutz movement in Israel started much earlier and is still going strong.
I lived on a kibbutz as a volunteer for a few months in 1996 … the members of the kibbutz told me the original ‘spirit’ that gave birth to the kibbutz movement was dying … capitalism was creeping in … kibbutniks more and more wanted personal possessions.
