So, is anyone a member?
Just curious.
I feel like a bit of a dick for paying to take a supervised IQ test, just to see if I qualified, but I did and now they’ve invited me to join.
I can give them even more money to be an official member (admittedly none of this has been/will be that costly) and I’d have access to whatever the hell it is they do - meetings, events and whatnot. I haven’t really looked into it.
My second question would be does anyone know if it’s worth it?
My little sister joined. It has not done a darn thing for her. I never saw anything worth anything about the group except bragging rights. They certainly are not out helping anyone as far as I can see. When I was a kid they were the ultimate bragging goal for parents. “My child is a member of Mensa”.
Yippee Skippee. Save your money to buy a book that you really want, it would be better spent that way.
I suspected as much.
Well, I’m quite content with the bragging rites. I’m sick of people not listening to what I have to say often/well enough, so I’m looking out for ANY opportunity to help persuade them otherwise, even if it involves an underlying knowledge that I am “officially” proven to be particularly clever. Simply demonstrating it without any frills doesn’t appear to be effective enough. One is naive if they think that achievements of some repute, titles (such as “doctor”), fame etc. have no effect on one’s ability to persuade people when your argument is good enough by itself. Essentially such a tactic is just an appeal to authority, but if it works, I don’t care what you call it. And now I have the opportunity to use this tactic.
Also, I want the opportunity to meet more people who are “officially” clever, which it sounds like I’ll get once I seal the deal. I do agree that this forum probably mostly has people of slightly higher intelligence, which I’m always on the look out for, which is why I’m here. Yet at the same time I’m not surprised that nobody else has (yet) replied that they are a member of Mensa too. I think Smears said something about “defecting” from Mensa, whatever that means…
But at the same time, I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two here were able to qualify, but have been clever enough not to bother trying. It probably “does not a darn thing for you”, but I’m vain enough to join regardless.
You’d actually be surprised about how often this fails. I recently read this anecdote about this guy who had various Grandiose ideas about Artificial Intelligence, or something like that, and nobody would listen to him because he didn’t have any degree, somebody literally told him, ‘Get back to use when you have a phd.’
So he did. He went out and got a phd.
Then they found other reasons to ignore him.
If someone wants to ignore your ideas, they’re going to find reasons to ignore them. If you don’t have a degree, they’ll ignore you because of that. If you do have a degree, they’ll ignore you for some other reason.
“Give me a smart idiot over a dumb genius any day.” Samuel Goldwyn
Wait… so you want the Mensa distinction so that you can make the fallacy of appeal to authority. Riiiight.
“Hey guys, I want a degree so that I can say something stupid…”
My own version of that: Let me be a smart idiot instead of a stupid-fuck who can act like he knows what he’s talking about on some abstract matters.
Sure, I understand the point.
Three things:
Firstly, perhaps less significantly, you’re talking of someone about whom others have already made up their minds. People often like to make up their mind about others within an infamously short amount of time, and then keep them in their allotted box regardless of anything they might subsequently do that would change more open minds. A mistake he could have avoided was publicising his ideas before attaining his degree.
Secondly, you’re talking about someone who doesn’t sound like he has good ideas anyway. I do, as many on here have explicitly told me. Not that I value this beyond the sense that I already know I make, but it means something to be able to communicate, and then on top of that, persuade.
Thirdly, perhaps these people don’t like him for reasons other than his ideas and qualifications.
Much of this was probably part of your point, but your anecdote provides insufficient evidence as to definitely disprove the effectiveness of the tactic in question, despite the sense you make.
To all: as I said, I’m not looking for an excuse to get away with intellectual dishonesty and ineptitude. I’m simply seeking to supplement my points, which are already good by themselves. They could just do with an extra kick, to help get through to those who resist that which simply makes sense.
Yes, this is what I said.
Can’t you put me back on ignore?
You know it could backfire in some ways. I don’t know what your profession is but, lets say you put Mensa on your resume. It could screw you out of a job. Over qualified, intimidate the nonMensa employer.
Casual conversation, you mention your job and being a member of mensa. The other person wonders why you could not get a better position because you are so intelligent. Those are just two ways off the top of my head. The two that has happened to my sister.
You have good reasons to do so but, don’t forget the downsides.
Of course.
I come across this judgment all the time when I am amongst those who mean nothing to me (before and after their judgment lol). My job is fairly “low-flying”, and I have no genuine shame in admitting this. Perhaps interestingly though, I will sometimes feign subtle shame when small-talking with these people to help them box me in with people THEY don’t have much reason to talk to, to save me the effort of doing the work of avoiding them. I am fine accepting such a judgment, and in return I judge them as fools for thinking so simplistically and unimaginatively. Though I am polite enough (unfoolish enough) to not project this back to them and thus find myself caught up in a dispute with a person who lacks the intelligence to see an alternative point of view that actually makes more sense than their own.
No, this tactic goes for people with whom I would choose to interract. Again, to supplement my points rather than “curiously contradict them” (as above).
In terms of the workplace, I am not about to put “member of mensa” onto an application form that I am to present to a prospective employer who is offering an opening for an unremarkable role. Obviously you can be selective with what you put in your C.V./application form, depending on who you are to present it to. And if such a thing should come up in later stages of the hiring process, I can simply respond with “do you not want intelligent people in your company?”
Two things prevent me from “success” in the working world:
(1) I much prefer being alone, and when I am amongst others, to lay low. Of course I have spent years becoming proficient in acting otherwise, to the point where I fool both my colleagues and customers. It’s just “not me”, and so on an underlying level I am unwilling to push this apparently more desirable behaviour.
(2) I am naturally anti-capitalist and simply cannot get excited about the process of making people give me more money and valuable service/produce than I give them. I simply wish to produce what I would produce anyway, for my own pleasure - and for a fair price if not for free. What a big softy, eh? 
One thing that I produce for my own pleasure is philosophical insight. Unlike in the (or at least my) working world, I think mention of my Mensa qualification is appropriate in a context such as this forum.
Well there you go then hon, you resolved your own questions. Any time you need a poke or prod, I am happy to help. Enjoy!
That does sound soft. I hope you have some hidden strength towards survival to make up for it, or at least a lot of luck.
It’s not the accolade it was once thought of.
Mensa is a private club that fewer people have heard of than was once the case. Most people think it more of a vanity association than any serious or worthwhile institution.
Do they actually do anything other that set tests, pat each other on the back and meet occasionally to decide who’s in and who’s out?
The society’s official objectives are:
to provide a stimulating intellectual and social environment for its members
to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity
to encourage research into the nature, characteristics, and uses of intelligence
1 - excuse for a piss up
2. How?
3. They do not seem particularly visible in these endeavours.
But wait - here’s the evidence that they are busy at working for these high ideals…
Well you took the test now you think you are the big man, good for you, fuck that elitist bullshit, fuck it all, it’s people like them that keep us thickos down! Yeah I failed the test, yeah I did, you got something to say big man!
I am kidding just enjoy the fact you are good at something and don’t sweat it, if you want to socialise with those people do so in good conscience. 
I did once do the test I passed, although to be honest god knows why, my dyslexic barely functioning mess of a consciousness should in no way be able to pass such a logical test. I think I scraped by on intuition and luck and maybe the fact I answered the questions really fast rather than getting them right a lot. I think I am sort of an idiot savant. Fortunately the test does not discriminate between the two.
You’re right on count 1. The reason his story is noteworthy, though, is because 2 is wrong: his ideas turned out to be quite brilliant. 3 was also wrong, as he was just a stranger at the time that these people initially dismissed him and told him to get a degree.
I believe the point was that my softness is what’s hidden… by my strength.
You seem to have gotten it backwards.
And this is only when assuming a role that doesn’t appeal to my strengths, when others do. In these others roles my strength is more than apparent. Outside of my element, it is strength of a different kind that I am projecting - a reactive strength rather than a proactive strength. I am saying that proactive strength is the stronger of the two, and my favoured kind. But in my case they are both strong, despite my “soft” preference to play fair.
Some might interpret this as a reluctance to compete, but they couldn’t be further from the truth - I am as competitive as they come. But when one is already in a position of power, and just going about one’s daily working business of taking more than one is giving, then that hardly qualifies as a copmetition. A competition is most intense when against those who are on the same level - that’s what I’m all about. The working world is geared away from that, and towards perpetually trying to undermine the other in order to get advantage at any cost.
To avoid competition?
This is utterly dishonourable. Not an indication of “hardness” in a person at all.
As a side point, I genuinely believe that certain efficiencies (e.g. continually cutting costs) can come at the expense of greater efficiencies (e.g. the success of the economy as a whole), but that is my head speaking rather than my heart. The fact that my heart agrees is beside this point.
Also, my luck is atrocious - it’d be screwed without my strength. And to afford my preferred independence and solitude, I have no other option anyway.
Thanks. Though I don’t see how my questions were resolved, since they were about the opinions of others and not my own.
That’s a shame, and mostly the impression I already had.
Well, perhaps they just need me to whip them into shape, eh?
I’m quite happy with yet another excuse for a piss up. Perhaps that IS their primary means toward achieving their official objectives. And maybe that’s why they’re not particularly visible in doing so…
How would one foster human intelligence, given a bunch of smart people anyhow?
Yeah. You suck, thicko 
What do you mean you passed the test, by the way? You were invited too, but turned it down?
God damn, people can suck sometimes.
Sil when I was a kid I got dragged through all this. I got a belt buckle out of it. It says mensa. If you want it, I’ll mail it to you for free but I have to find it among all the shit in the boxes in my closet. It’s pretty heavy duty man like from back in the day when a belt buckle was the shit.
If I were you, I’d do it just to be a dick, then I’d have nothing to do with mensa for real. Just to be a dick to them too.
I got a philosophy degree too and I just wave it around and use it to make people think I know about philosophy. I’m like, “nah man, dualism is false because yo check it I got this degree man trust me I know”.
Silhouette, you may recall that I was complimenting you on an argument you were making in another thread, at the time just from what I had read then and in even earlier threads I thought that we are much alike. From the last two posts you made in this thread I’m even more convinced. But, obviously there are great differences as well. What you consider to be a strength, the fact that you will hold out from real gain so that you will be more ready for real competition; philosophy and such, I consider in myself to be a terrible weakness.
Think of it this way; a strength is often thought of as a foundation in which good things can come or rest when they do. I’m carrying around a giant load that weighs me down, a load of what I consider ridiculous ambition. Myself who is that load’s foundation is far from enough to carry it for long.
To have a simple projected life as humans have had for thousands of years and to semi-consciously fulfill it is what I consider to be strength. I believe I have a disease which keeps me from that, if I were to successfully fight it I would consider that to be a feat worth mentioning. Now as you see me on ilp writing whatever it is I do, you see the unpleasant symptoms of my disease.
That’s awesome! What a dickish thing to own - you should follow your own advice and wear it 
It says if I apply within 2 weeks I’ll get a lapel and a certificate. Much more discreet, and easily flashable - that’s more up my street, and no less dickish.
But as much as I love being a dick, and as much as the attitude that you’re recommending sounds appealing, I can’t help but feel it’d be such a shame if I did that.
It reminds me of that film, Watchmen, and how the Comedian goes around being a dick just to be ironic (and in a double irony really enjoys himself in the process). It’s funny, and fun, but so so negative. I kinda feel like I should try and make something out of it… but that probably makes me into an even bigger dick. Whatever though, I will join - but I’ll probably try and involve myself somehow (though I have a knack for blowing off social event opportunities). I like the feeling of being around smart people - it has this wonderful air of stuck-up complacency and explicit self-satisfaction in the shared knowledge that one another is intelligent, allowing a sense of relief that each of you has finally escaped the standard tools that plague everyday mundane life. It’s sickly, indulgent and despicable
I’m sure I’m partly trying to compensate for the fact that I quit my degree(s), on account of how mindless and intellectually restricting the material was. It pisses me off when people take that shit seriously, but now I have proof that I am in the top 2%, rather than the top 25% (which is apparently what the percentage of people with a degree in my country has risen to - which is fucking lame).
But even top 2% sounds lame to me. In an average random sample of only 100 people, there’s probably someone cleverer than you. There’s 7 billion people in the world (UK billion).
What is “real gain” to you?
I believe my talents set me up for good things to come my way, and rest when they do - but I also have discretion. I don’t tolerate bad things coming my way, and especially not resting when they do (which accounts for much of my self-imposed isolation).
I don’t like anything to be burden for me, I prefer freedom and lightness. I follow “my self” and have no illusions and compulsions to go elsewhere - I see no reason in allowing oneself to be perpetually dissatisfied with one’s life. You are saying you have a disease that keeps you from things such as this? That is sad, and what I would consider a terrible weakness.
I thank you for your compliments, though I hope you do not take it the wrong way when I say I see no such common ground between us. Perhaps I am not looking hard enough, or in the right way.
yeah I never joined MENSA despite being able to, that should not deter you from doing so, hell it’s not a bad thing to be good at those sorts of tests. It’s like being good at football or a miraculous mechanic of engines, everyone has talents in different areas, you should laud your strengths.