MONEY vs. ETHICS

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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Which is more valuable …material things or the ethical life?
Of course, it is not a choice between one or the other: a person - whether very wealthy or very poor - can be highly ethical. Or both may exhibit, and/or exemplify, immorality.
In the U.S.A. we have made money into a god. When you ask someone how they’re doing, they primarily think in material terms; everything else is secondary.

Let’s examine the benefits of each:
MONEY gets you all the food you can eat; a nice place to live; a new car every year; freedom, and (say if you buy a seat in Congress, or a media conglomerate, or a dictatorship) even power.

ETHICS. Decency, civility, a good character, a sense of responsibility, a disposition to kindness, integrity, cooperativeness, a capacity to focus on a project you enjoy, and to be creative, to, in that sense, have ‘a work ethic’; an attitude of gratitude; caring about a healthy life and a healthy world; a love of learning; an appreciation of beauty, truth, and goodness; a striving to add value, to be constructive; in other words, by being ethical you can get some enduring human relationships, some love, a high quality of life, a sense of well-being.

Being ethical IS rewarding, but most people do not yet understand or appreciate that. They seem (morally) “asleep or dead.”

Conclusion: It is ignorance of the long-term benefits of being ethical that keeps us all from having a better world.

Many people will do anything for money. Why? Because they see immediate benefits.

My argument here is that being ethical is MORE VALUABLE for us than the pursuit of materialism. [size=85][In earlier posts I have explained why this is so and have employed logic to demonstrate this fact. I gave theory and reasons.
Is it possible that reason - bare logic - without emotion and emphasis is just not convincing to the lay person, to the proverbial “man in the street”? And it’s perhaps not appropriate to arouse emotions at a Philosophy site.][/size]

Granted, a lot of people get rich because they were unethical. They did whatever they could get away with. You all know about such business practices and have probably experienced some in your life - in which you were the victim …I mean the customer, or the patient. Many, if not most, politicians can be “bought.”

Why do they pursue monetary gain or profit above everything?
It is because they are vividly aware of the benefits of money ! Money lately is the token necessary to exchange to get something to eat if one is starving - starving due to lack of demand (and thus no work) in the field for which one is trained and has achieved some high level of skill. And this is the position in which many good men and women find themselves these days. Money enables good people to get into debt. Borrowing beyond the means to repay has ruined many a life.

:bulb: The folks who advocate a Resource Based Economy {the Zeitgeist Movement, videos about which you can see on You Tube} claim they have a better idea: they say we ought to find out where the resources are in the world, and distribute them (provide the basic minimum of food, clothes, and shelter) directly - without fee or charge - to the people who need them, thus setting the world free to have the leisure and opportunity to create technological innovation. They recommend a priceless society, “priceless” in more ways than one. They urge we should utilize automation to the fullest now, turn all human drudgery over to robots immediately, turn jobs into hobbies and vocations, thus liberating the whole world. We have severe crises and contradictions in the money system today, they argue, that aren’t going to be solved unless we revolutionize the economy. [size=85]Essays and articles advocating this approach are here: http://www.theresourcebasedeconomy.com/ They now have chapters in most major cities.[/size]

However, keep in mind that as a species we are getting better, ethically-speaking. Until about 1800 human beings were a bunch of savages, primitive and ruthless. Slavery was universally present. We tore limbs off people, stretched them on a rack, burned heretics slowly to death on a stake, drowned women - charging them with being “witches.” Some of these practices persist even today in Saudi Arabia where they will cut fingers off your hand if you happen to commit what they consider to be a transgression. Also in Myanmar (formerly Burma.) It’s not too pleasant to live in North Korea either. Keep in mind that three percent of the U.S. population are sociopaths, some of them highly-skilled, and may be prominent members of society. They have an inability to care or to empathize with the suffering of others. {One of them even became Vice President. I shall not mention any names.}

Do you forum members here at least agree that being ethical is better than the love of money for its own sake? Which habits will you attempt to form? Will you dispel ignorance about the principles of Ethics?

I’d like to hear what you think about all this. Comments? Suggestions?

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I think if you ask this of someone who’s just had a salary raise but lost a child, or who has just won a new car but found out they have cancer, you’d find otherwise. It may be different in Europe (although I doubt we’re fundamentally more spiritual here; if anything, religion is far more alive in the US), but asking someone how they are very rarely elicits materialistic responses.

With ethics but no money you can’t get a new car every year. But you haven’t made the case that with money and no ethics you can’t have a high quality of life or a sense of well-being. This sounds more like a point for a sermon than a thesis.

You have set them up as rivals, but I don’t see why one has to be better than the other - comparing the two is a category error in my view. Money enables you to do things; your ethics determine what you do.

It is, although unlikely. Most people here can follow a line of argumentation. It might be that people disagree that your ‘bare logic’ is convincing in its reason, I don’t know. But to start with a sermon and then claim you’re on the side of bare logic seems an ambitious strategy. :slight_smile:

People have a more grateful attitude these days? A stronger work ethic? Art is more devoted to the beautiful? These seem like comparatively “old-fashioned” virtues - not to say that they’re obsolete or wrong in any way, but that they’re conservative ideals not exemplified by modern life. Someone who was anti-abortion could argue that we are far more murderous these days, of course.

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I like this. I shall quote it in the future, if there is no objection.

That’s true; but I was referring to the lay person, not the philosopher or the philosophy student. The average person is “turned off” by symbolic logic as well as by math. Many have a phobia in that area. Here I received no criticism as to the logic of my arguments. …at least so far. They did follow the argument and were constructive in their comments. Soon I shall post a proof demonstrating that each individual is of uncountable value. Watch for it.

Note that I did say, in the second line of the first post: "Of course, it is not a choice between one or the other: a person - whether very wealthy or very poor - can be highly ethical. " I selected that topic name to get people’s attention, to get us to discuss and dialogue about the Philosophy of Economics, and the immorality of naked greed.

No. They aren’t that familiar with the new paradigm for Ethics either. A knowledge of that model [A Unified Theory of Ethics] might have an impact. It remains to be seen. Folks aren’t that acquainted either with the contents of a new book, one I can recommend highly as in keeping with the highest insights of the ethical discipline. It is by Peter H. Diamandis & Steven Kotler. Its title is ABUNDANCE: The future is better than you think.(NY: Free Press, 2012). Check with your local public library to see if they have it; if they don’t, suggest that they purchase a copy.

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against money. It is just a tool. It is our relationship to money that can be the problem. The casino part of the financial industry operates on the emotions of Fear and Greed. These emotions keep us from being fully moral. The problem arises when we make money into a god. This is greed. When people think money is the highest value, they will do anything for money. This results in immorality. This corrupts a person.

Let’s be solution-minded! And pro-active. :slight_smile: Let’s scour the country and the world for “best practices.” Let’s learn from many sources, from high-performing institutions and organizations, so we can replicate the elements that contribute to strong performance.

:bulb: Foundations give grants to efforts to dispose of outmoded procedures, and to learn and to share what works, to apply it to relevant situations.

The will to be solution-minded and pro-active originates in the ethical mind and in the person of good character. For he or she exercises good judgment. It starts with one’s inner life. It emerges from ‘the improving Self.’

Coleridge noted that “the more we know, the greater our thirst for knowledge.” Seneca observed: “Principles are like seeds; they are little things which do much good, if the mind which receives them has the right attitudes.”

“Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful we must carry it with us or we find it not,”said Emerson. He points out that freedom consists in liberty from negative attitudes and emotions. He writes: “Don’t be a cynic, and wail and bemoan. Omit the negative propositions. Don’t waste yourself in rejection, nor bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good.”

We can describe a right life as one which follows natural and beneficial rules. “Such is the picture of a beautiful life and could we see it with our own eyes, as Plato says, great would be our desire to possess Wisdom.” – Cicero.

In this economy debt is only a tool also. Yet consider this advice from a deep gentleman named Shakespeare:
From Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 3

Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

Is it as relevant now as it was then? Can debt be insidious? Can a modern business function without it? Undeniably, it has been the downfall of many an individual.