monogamy

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

I don’t see myself as monogamous. I’m actually very much of a romantic and I can fall in love fast and hard and love more than one person at a time in a romantic way. I’m also a very physical person. I like to touch people, to hug, to cuddle, to have sex etc.
Because this is an opinion that is a part of me, I’ve never felt I had to justify it (you don’t ask people why there favorite colour is their favorite colour), but lately more and more people seem to want more of an explanation.

I think monogamy is very much an oldfashioned concept. Over the years it has gotten this “good” connotation; Monogamy is good, polygamy is evil. Most people don’t even think about why this is so. I think it is because people are very egotistic, they don’t want to share their partners. (I’ve noticed lately how many young people think it’s perfectly okay for them to be polygamous, but their significant other can’t be.) Furthermore I think the Church has strenghtened this connotation because they want us to believe sex is evil (so sex with different persons must be even more evil).

I’m very much a supporter of free will. I feel my free will is curtailed when I can’t express my love for other person than the one I’m in a relatoinship with. I don’t even mean I’ll have sex with every random stranger who crosses my path, sometimes I just want to kiss someone in a more than friendly way.

Well, this is quite the personal post. Now I’d like to hear wath you think about this, maybe have some better arguments (I know mine aren’t that great) pro or contra.

2

People need to remove the corruption of morality from the act of sex. When I contemplate any activity, my only concern is it’s potential for either pleasure (in a broad sense) or pain (in a broad sense), taking care to attempt to be aware of all reasonable potential consequences. Sex is very pleasant. When care is taken to avoid the negative consequences, pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases or emotional entanglements etc., it’s just a very fun and enjoyable thing to do. It’s like watching a good movie with a friend. Fun, better if done with the right partner, and an act for which my desire is generally constant and so something I will do whenever a favorable opportunity (attractive partner and circumstances) exists. I don’t understand why people make such a big deal out of it in a modern age where we can use technology (like condoms and vastectomies) to avoid the inherent negatives, and caution and insight to avoid the peripheral negatives (like the loss of opportunity to do other things we could have done instead, irrational emotional attachment by partner, etc.). It really is just sex.

Kory

3

Hmmmh, guess it’s time for me to stop lurking…

I’ve lived on all sides of the fence, actually. My first relationship was with a man (boy really, but at the age of 24, I guess technically he was a man) who thought polygamy was perfect for him, but that I had to be totally faithful to him.

It failed.

My second relationship was total monogamy.

It also failed.

My third was, once again, total monogamy.

And it failed.

My fourth was with a man who believed in polygamy to the extent that I could do what I wanted, he could do what he wanted, and that if we were both available, we would spend time together. In theory this is quite nice, in practice, we were little more than fuckbuddies.

And I still haven’t quite worked out in my mind if that failed or not.

Call me a romatic if you want, but the sex in all of those was pure physical pleasure. There was no emotional or mental attachment at all, and because of that, I quickly lost interest. In both my relationships, and my few between times that weren’t serious enough for me to consider them boyfriends.

What I’m looking for is a man who can satisfy me not only physically, but mentally and emotionally. I would gladly forego sex entirely if the mental and emotion attachment were there. And if I found a man who was able to satisfy those needs, I would have no desire to look elsewhere.

Regardless, polygamy is certainly a “valid” lifestyle choice. It’s simply not the choice for me, and based on my past experience, and the experiences of my friends, I don’t see it as a way to gain a long term partner, even if you are in a relationship with a primary. It just seems empty and unfulfilling to me, and I’ll bet most people get tired of it as they age. As long as no one gets hurt in the process, I see no harm in it, but speaking from experience, I felt I harmed myself and I see it as a self-destructive path.

Review what you are looking for in the long term. Sure, sex is physically pleasurable, but what else is there for you? Will this fulfill you when you are 50? 60?

–Kissa

If you love something, set it free. If it doesn’t come back to you, hunt it down and kill it.

4

Imagine sitting alone at a Dunkin Donut shop just off the highway in Hoboken, New Jersey. You’re hungry, but you have a donut in your hand. Under your nose it smells good enough. In your mouth is tastes alright. Having eaten it, your sweet tooth is satisfied - for the moment. And having eaten the donut you suddenly become aware of your surroundings. Where are you? You’re in a place that you can’t get out of fast enough. Why? Because, in the words of Gertrude Stein, “There is no there, there.” It was all about the donut. And now that’s gone.

Now imagine…no wait, click here first…imagine being in a French pâtisserie. The marble topped, walnut trimmed glass cases are filled with croissants and tarts. Smells of almonds and coffee. Across from you is the person you love more than your own life. A person with whom you have history and will make history. You talk a little, have a bite of pastry, take a sip of coffee. Sit quietly. A child walks in with his mother. You make a silly face. He laughs. Everyone laughs. After a long while your plate is empty and your second cup is drained. You step outside together, arm in arm. She says, “You know I love you, don’t you?” You squeeze her arm, smile, and together you set off to make some history. The pastry is gone, but then, it wasn’t about the pastry, was it?

J’attendrai
Le jour et la nuit, j’attendrai toujours
Ton retour

Michael

5

Any kind of sharing is difficult to do. There is an element of possessiveness to all relationships. Mine. It is a very potent word. Mine. Entwined with our desire for love is our desire for security and safety. We don’t just long for love now, but we also want reassurance that love will be there for us later. Reliability, dependability, and fidelity are important. We want our source of love, support, and encouragement to be always there for use when we need it.

There is problem due to the limited resource of attention. If I go to my beloved and seek attention and my beloved is paying attention to something or someone else, then I don’t get the attention I want. My thirst goes unquenched. Likewise if my beloved comes seeking my attention and I am paying attention to someone or someone else, they are left unsatisfied.

Imagine being with somebody who was always distracted. Then you really would not “be” with them at all. You would not “be” together if they never pay any attention to you.

Monogamy gives you the assurance that part of you beloved’s attention will always be available for you. Likewise part of your attention will always be available for your beloved.

Loyalty and faithfulness inspire trust. Trust deepens love.

6

Yes, it’s great, possibly even necessary for happiness, to get emotional and mental pleasure from the people around you (assuming you’re the kind of person who’s not a big fan of sitting alone on mountain tops eating bark). I just don’t see what sex has to do with that. Sure, in theory, it would be fucking fantastic if I could get satisfactory physical, mental AND emotional pleasure from one person. But, in my experience and my observations of those around me, that almost never happens without serious sacrifice of individuality, both (or more) people losing their former identities and reforming around each other. I happen to like being who I am. Since I don’t feel like being molded into something dependent, unless I can find that mythical the one who will want me exactly as I am, and as a realist I’m not holding my breath, I just don’t see why I should limit myself from any one of the three kinds of pleasure to be gained in order to wait for all three to be combined. It’s not going to happen, not soon at any rate, so I might as well enjoy a good fuck and look for emotional pleasure from friends and mental from friends and books.

Kory

7

Korvas,

Keep in mind the other is not there to satisfy your every want, nor your every need. A relationship involves sacrifice. Both individuals must sacrifice to create a third being, the relationship itself. A relationship does transform you, for good and for ill. But it is still growth. You can avoid them but that involves a different kind of sacrifice.

The one person who will accept you just as you are is a fantasy. Could you accept another person exactly as they are? Even if you intensely loved another person there would be the desire to diminish what you didn’t like and to increase what you did like about them.

Independence is stronger than dependence. Interdependence is stronger than independence. Your body is strong not because each part can work alone but because working together your body can do more than any of its individual parts could do alone.

8

Good post, Xanderman.

Or at a minimum; compromise.

There’s a old joke that women leave their husbands because husbands don’t change, and men leave their wives because wives do change.

Succinctly put, Xanderman. I like that.

“Knowing we are loved gives us greater strength than knowing we are strong.” – Goethe

Regards,
Michael

9

Interesting posts. I do find that working together for a relationship is beneficial. Though I don’t think that any relationship should rule out polygamy. It’s one of those decisions that you have to sit down and make as a couple. Polygamy works for some people, and not for others. It all depends upon the dynamics and needs of the relationship, and the people that compose it.

10

Hello Ikiningyo,

OK, I guess I get to be the old philosopher this time. One thing you may not have considered is that polygamy has been traditionally beneficial to men, not to women. That is, most of the time polygamy refers to a single man and multiple wives. I would be willing to bet that no one reading this post can identify the word that describes a relationship involving a single woman and multiple men. I think it’s ‘polyandry’ - see, even I don’t know the word - that’s how infrequently it’s been used!

If sex is the sole issue, you may find over time that sex is a small part of a relationship (and guys, no jokes about “small parts” either). For instance, you sound like someone who would eventually want children. Believe me when I tell you that you’ll love your children more than you will love any man. I wasn’t a parent until I was over 40 and I can testify that this is a more permanent, beautiful type of love - it never goes away. It’s tested frequently, but it persists!

As a parent, you will want to be with someone who you can trust to be there when things are very bad. Finding one person you can count on is hard enough, finding more than one would be a monumental task. Also, the politics of a relationship can be difficult to deal with - add more people and it gets even more complicated. It’s hard to maintain a safe, healthy environment when all those games are going on.

On the other hand, I’d be a hypocrite if I said you shouldn’t play the field and see what is out there. I can’t understand people wanting a single relationship for their whole life either. I would have missed out on a lot if I had simply stuck with the first good thing that came along. I don’t think of this as polygamy, though. It is more of the experimental stage of sexual relationships.

Have fun but be careful.

11

Logo, folks who critique monogamy aren’t saying the better alternative is polygamy. Most are saying the alternative is polyamory, which is not tied to sex/gender.

Someone who is open to polyamory (and whose partner is open to polyamory) may not actively seek multiple loves, but they are atleast open to it. If someone /did/ come along (granted it would be monumental, especially when you take children into consideration), they would not dismiss them just on the basis that they already have one partner.

Granted, when more people are involved, the attention has to be split up amongst them… just as when we have more than one close friend, more than one child, more than one co-worker, and so on.

12

This is a distinction without a difference. Men are favored in either case and this was my point. When men can have babies (or can be compelled to accept their responsibility) and there is no special stigma attached to female promiscuity, then polyamory may become a viable option for a young woman.

As far as, once in a relationship, taking on the occasional lover, I wish I could go along with that but it doesn’t work in the real world. We live in a world where each one of us thinks we are special - I don’t have a problem with that. The by-product of that situation is that nobody wants to have their best friend go off with someone else to their exclusion. I looked for that woman and she just wasn’t out there!

I stick with my admonition to check out what’s out there but then stick to one person in the end. Incidentally, this is about as conservative as I get so write this one down.

13

I know plenty of people that are swingers, and make it work. A general rule of thumb is make sure that both you and your partner do everything together when you meet with other singles or couples. Stick to that rule, and there is no reason to be jealous. You can still do this if you have kids. I’m not talking about you and your spouse’s lovers being parents for your kids, I’m talking about them just being lovers. Unless your kids are part of your sex life (UGH! Let’s just forget about that!) then there is no reason why kids would impede your ability to go out and have sexual encounters other then not being able to find a babysitter.

14

I don’t condemn people for engaging in this behavior. If people want to do this, I have no objections provided it is all consensual. However, I don’t recommend it for anyone. My experience is that the relationships between these couples always involves one very submissive partner (and I don’t mean they are necessarily introverted) and one dominant partner who is really deriving most of the satisfaction from this arrangement. Typically, the benefactor is the male but not exclusively. This is not a healthy relationship and it is not one I would recommend to any 18 year old woman.

15

A.C.B. >> Well, I would feel very responsible if my child were harmed by a person who ‘said’ they were okay w/ near-indescriminate sex, when actually they turned out to be a possessive, obssessive, stalking control-freak.

Think “Fatal Attraction”, think “Vanilla Sky” (assuming you are blessed with no real-life examples to keep as a focal point).

Logos,

I understand that polyamory does not work among people with the mindset you are describing. We are talking apples and oranges.

It doesn’t work for you, that doesn’t make it ‘universally’ not work. Having more than one lover does not negate the ‘specialness’ of each person, any more than having more than one child negates the ‘specialness’ of each person. In my opinion, monogamy is like the only child that demands its parents never have another baby. You looked for that woman in a different world, a world that is constantly changing.

Whatever works for you and yours. Pun intended. :slight_smile:

16

Sounds almost like quality vs. quantity.

17

As in quality of sex matters more than how much sex one gets? Or quality of relationship matters more than how many relationships one is in? That doesn’t automatically mean that quality is sacrificed by quantity (in this case having more than one partner). It’s not an either/or situation.

Just like… How many children one has depends on the person. Some people can only handle one child, others can have umpteen children and still feel like a good parent. It depends on the individuals involved, whether or not polyamory will work for them.

18

Supply and demand then.

Assuming one settles down with one believes to be the best possible mate (I know this rarely happens but stick with me) time away from the “best” in search of the most, is actually detrimental to one’s cause… one already has the best… why on earth settle for less and take time away by investing it in others who are not nearly as worthy to one’s own personal tastes/needs etc. ?

I believe your argument contends that, for some, the best is the most. This may be true as a matter of personal choice… history is rife with examples of people settling for the mediocre, having given up on the best long beforehand. Mediocre being less than the best.

19

Not to derail the thread, but I can recall a dream I had at least three months ago where I started a flamewar by posting something like this on a thread very similar to this one. Every time I click on this thread I get a sense of deja vu. No doubt with nearly six years experience on various internet forums I am projecting quite a bit. Still I find this a bit strange.

She, you are right, I am wrong. Please don’t yell at me.

:slight_smile:

20

GateControlTheory, I don’t blame you for wanting to avoid a stupid flame war, especially if that’s how this sort of conversation always ends up for you. I figure it’s still viable, however, and will keep replying until such time that I think the horse is dead. In the future please (the choice is obviously yours) do not say I am right and you are wrong just to appease me. I am not a monster, and that ain’t philosophy… pulling that on me is insulting. (((GCT)))

Nope, I never even implied it, and what I did write is there for you to review. I even mentioned a person open to polyamory may not even seek outside their current relationship. Your mention of “best” reminds me of the soul-mate issue – there is no “best”.

I have to go until tonight, will be back.