Hijacked my ass, this thread is still open for anybody that wishes to list any movies they wish they had directed.
Right there at 37:19… see that almost imperceptible Robert de niro look on his face when he’s got his head tilted.
Lemme tell you what’s going on here. This interview is outstanding, btw. Every pervert about to jump off should watch this interview first and then read my analysis of it once I publish my shit.
Okay the God talk, Ted knows, is bullshit. Ted is an atheist and has been since he’s been able to think about the subject competently (around the Washington state and Puget sound period.) This is already fully established by the time he completes his psychology degree.
This talk is an expedient for the purposes of trying to help Dobson, his cause, and as a deterrent to any would-be killer who might see the interview. Ted’s trying to stop them, and this is the cooperative side of him telling a white lie for a good cause… but the other side is still there. This side knows there is no god, no purpose, and that none of this really matters. So Ted doesn’t truly feel bad here… not in the way religious people feel bad in the presence of such a travesty. He’s acting here, and this is the personality component that they then call ‘psychopathic’; his inability to believe that there is a God, a purpose, and that anything matters, and the behavior that follows from those conclusions.
See what I mean? His sense of ‘remorse’ is different. It’s there, but for and about something else… and u might note an irony. Ted is saddened more by the knowledge that we all are essentially meaningless, and concern for a few people (‘what’s a few people less, in the world?’ -Bundy) is a small, trivial point by comparison.
What disturbs Ted the most is that it is even possible for something like him to happen in the first place, and that whatever he does duddint even matter. While what disturbs the viewers and families of the victims- and don’t get me wrong the suffering must be incredible for them - is that a man like this would have the nerve to kill everybody when God exists and everything is wonderful on an erf complete with meaning and purpose.
I ask you who is more delusional here, and who bears greater existential knowledge and the burden that comes with it? The easy part is believing in god, in the goodness of man, of freewill, etc. The difficult part is addressing the problem without using such nonsense to explain anything.
Okay so he does obviously feel bad for the whole deal, the families, the victims, but only in an impersonal way like an evil Buddha.
But that look right there was the last we ever saw of the ‘entity’ that took our Teddy away frim us on that starry Northwest Pacific night back sometime in the late sixties. The entity was telling Dobson to fuck off.
I also have a theory about the geographics and it’s influence on Ted. I believe the intensity of the experiences Ted had in those remote locations in the mountains was significantly increased to a point of becoming almost ‘mystical’ for him. Huge majestic forests that swallow you… wide open sky and that enormous moon casting that bright blue light down into the shadows. Know what I mean? I mean if you were outside in general doing a rape/murder, and you’re of the type that is aroused by necrophilia, where better than these fucking forests? You need the whole cinematic affect to create that creepy mystical feeling of union these guys get with their corpses. Imagine how big that moon wuz man. And then you get the beetle headlights going to add some more lighting effect.
When I say stellar event I mean every single detail of this guy’s life wuz so perfectly put together and designed by fate to play out with storybook perfection. Every little detail is just wonderful to observe. Even the sock fetish.
Are you crazy man? Nobody believes in God or a purpose. Those are the things about him that make him normal.
No no, I insist, what made him “psychopathic” is a feeling of powerlessness so deep and so unacceptable, it breaks something.
That is why he does the act. He wants to blame anything but what he knows is his true motive.
That is what makes him actually “psychopathic,” that is, out to cause people pain for his enjoyment.
The reason people will call him psychopathic, other than professionals, is the simple fact of intelligence. It freaks people out.
“Are you crazy man? Nobody believes in God or a purpose. Those are the things about him that make him normal.”
I know that, u know that, he knows that. What I’m trying to show u is the grand irony; Ted was always right, and he’s lying in the last interview for the sake of those whom he’s offended as well as those budding sociopaths who might see the video in the future. If he’da told the troof, he’da been like ‘yo it is what it is’, but imagine the mayhem that woulda caused. Ted was bearing the responsibility of the noble lie, and if you’ve ever had to tell the noble lie, you’d know what it’s like and what it can do to a man.
Ted Bundy was sacrificed for all us pervs. he is our christ dude, and you won’t understand this unless ur a perv.
“That is what makes him actually “psychopathic,” that is, out to cause people pain for his enjoyment.”
This is too textbook and simplistic. U don’t understand how it develops. If a contingency of sexual arousal arises without being compelled during an act of experimental violence, and happens to be in tandem with a period of intellectual development that has brought the perpetrator to the opinion that there is no god or objective morality (which he does much later after leaving the home and entering college), then you have a person who is literally unable to BELIEVE that he shouldn’t sacrifice others for his own pleasure. But this is beside my initial point so hold on.
Initially, I mean, the desire is just to get the sex and the perpetrator doesn’t yet know whether or not the addition of violence to the acquisition of it, will contribute to his pleasure. Incidentally, it will be necessary to be rather violent to obtain the sex, since it’s rape and non-consenting. And here is where and when it happens… where determinism gets its hands on the neural networks linking the limbic system to the frontal lobe, and Teddy, over-run by some uninvited primal animal like adrenaline rush, suddenly pops a boner when all he wanted to do was experiment with a basic rape without excessive violence. Or vice versa. An intended physical assault only might arouse sexual desire as well.
Note that the first known assault was not an abduction. He was experimenting with the fantasy derived from the sexualized violent porn he was into. There was nothing of ‘possession’ here, no desire to abduct, dispose of and return to, any bodies. This was the very earliest stage, and he didn’t know what he wuz gonna feel.
For Ted, it was already too late in Sparks’s case. He had already been conditioned through operant reward and the association for/of violence and sex. He was predisposed long before he could turn the phrase ‘im a psychopath because I cause others pain for my enjoyment’ or even understand what that means. It’s alleged, but never proven, that he murdered an eight year old when he was fourteen. Lotta circumstancial evidence but nothing solid. Never confessed when asked. If he did, my theory is that he wouldn’t admit it because then his mother and his home life would by under much more direct scrutiny; what is a fourteen year old doing stealing eight year olds out of their bedrooms at night, and where is his mother, etc. Ted had enough respect for his moms (his ex sister) to keep her implication as far away as possible. He wanted us to believe he made this monster when he was in college. But it wasn’t. He was trying to take the blame for not controlling something that already had him long before his twenties.
Remember when he laid all the knives around his sleeping aunt in the bed? Bro he was like three. Wtf is that about the evil little fucker.
“No no, I insist, what made him “psychopathic” is a feeling of powerlessness so deep and so unacceptable, it breaks something.”
Absolutely true, every time. U look around those killer’s lives and you’ll find events and combinations of events that are just that. Overwhelming feelings of failure and/or alienation and abuse during the formative years.
Only later if the killer makes himself a work of art and gets into it, does he experience a new learned sense of success. Remember the seeds were seen when Ted was in boy scouts, more or less. He was very awkward, quiet, not very athletic, so not very popular, etc. He would sneak off into his own private world and look at those horrible magazines while his peers are out at the roller skating rink socializing and sharing milk shakes.
What redeems Ted from the kemper-complex, which is that image of oneself as a failure with women that stays the entire course of the killers life, is his tremendous, tremendous success with a lotta hoes both socially and romantically.
This is why we can’t sustain our ‘he was a wus’ diagnosis indefinitely like we can with Schaefer. Ted became a frickin de sade and had mastered the whole shit in like two years bro. The only reason Ted wuddint a pimp instead of a rapist is because of that godforsaken ugly ass Volkswagen he drove. Plus he also had that fixed subconscious image of the sexualized female object that allowed him to differentiate between women to socialize with (Liz, Carole) and women to use exclusively for fantasy.
Bro. Look at Carol da ronch. She pulls up in a cherry red camero and jumps out looking like a life sized barbie doll. Seriously go look at her back then. This woman radiated sexual desire and so ol’ officer Roseland had to go to work son.
“It wasn’t possession that drove him. He didn’t want to possess these women. That is a whole different activity. He wanted to drain out his powerlessness.”
Originally it wasn’t. That aspect is one of those weird things that the serial killer gets thrown into and never sees coming. The possession aspect of the rape stage is only a control mechanism. He’s not doing it to possess, but to control so he can rape. Possession is incidental here. It’s the creepy possession stage of the necrophilia and dismemberment that’s fascinating. Some kind of soft delirium we can’t know because we’ve never done it.
Think about it dude. Something going on here on some deep level shit. How can a guy sit there next to you one moment and talk about Republican policy over a beer… and two hours later he’s sitting against a tree talking to a girl’s head in his lap as he brushes her hair.
What we absolutely have here is a possession fetish. He wants and needs to keep some of the bodies. It’s the reason why that we can’t understand. Either just to revisit for sex (to satiate himself and avoid having to make the effort to abduct another), or for some kind of ritual too bizarre for us to really get our minds around. Course we have a history of keeping trophies of our rivals after we kill them, but this is a much different context. This is part of that incomprehensible fantasy state Ted was in… had to be in… to literally do all this creepy shit with the women. Religious even in it’s intensity, or of a temporary delusional state induced by some kind of personality split. Remember this guy was just talking to you about labor unions over a beer not three hours ago.
Here’s the basic outline of Ted’s stage development.
First there’s the peeping and masturbation. This goes on for years. Ted’s only encounter with anything sexual was through pornographic media. His moms never talked about sex to him and he had no girlfriends in his early teens. The alienation combined with the constant exposure to the medium of sex and violence, the inability to express sexual desires in a healthy way with a girlfriend, and the fact that this material is all he had to masturbate too (we jacked off to Playboy, dude. That’s nuthin), conditioned him to have very perverse desires that eventually became overwhelming.
Next stage. He’s gonna do it, but he doesn’t know how exactly. It’s all on the fly. In fact, he’s not really sure what he’s looking for. He just knows he’s gonna assault her enough to gain control and rape her. No mystical possession stuff yet.
Caveat; I’m assuming that Sparks wasn’t his first in all this. If Sparks was his first, I’d have to revise this. In Sparks case, Ted was extremely angry and her killing was in response to Brooks breaking up with him. The typical universalization of the symbol of the woman as the betrayer, ergo, all women are like Steph and fuck Steph.
If Ted started in his early teens, as some theory believes, then all the stage developments of the possession aspect were as described. Very bizarre stuff we can’t know or experience. How an otherwise normal looking and sounding dude could do some outrageous shit like that.
Final stage is the refinement of the MO and a clear understanding of what he needs to get off. The experiments are long over by now and the dude ended up discovering that the necrophilia was somehow exhilarating during the while. It was also something that wasn’t always exclusive to his activity. It characterized the end of the Washington stage and the beginning of the Utah stage. By the time of Utah, Ted had a newly found confidence and a feeling of freedom that empowered him out of the prior depression he experienced before the Liz phase. Steph and the universal evil woman was no more. Now the girls were just toys and he’s no longer angry at em. He’s matured now and it’s no longer about revenge, see. As I said, the mysogynist stage was brief with Ted because he did quite well with the ladies. But he felt that these relationships were somewhat superficial because he believed he was financially inadequate as a boyfriend or for a surrogate family. In reality, Liz, Carole and even Steph (on the rebound) actually adored Ted. He was just a neurotic guy with deep seated feelings of failure and inadequacy from all the way back that got in the way of him allowing himself to be loved with a clean conscience. The pressures of bourgeois society and upperclass Republican parties. Ted was turned into and expected to be an impulsive overachiever who was destined for fame. They fuckin turned him into a nervous wreck dude.
I don’t think you understand what possession is. Or what rape is, tbh. When you say that they control in order to be able to rape, actually it’s the opposite. They rape in order to control. From the get go. And it is possible that that instinct to control gets more sophisticated and subtle with the years, but it is still what it is. That puts it in stark contrast with possession.
Rape is important to them because it insta drains the feeling of powerlesness. You are trying to make it too complicated, rather than me simplistic. Powerlesness, a failure inside. It’s not about revenge, never about revenge. Maybe revenge fantasies can be used, but the motive is never revenge. It’s more basic than that. He is powerless, controls nothing in his life, and so imposes the most radical form of control on another human being possible. He cannot even dream of wanting to possess, he does not understand the thing that is there. He doesn’t really care to understand. He becomes charming and gets the hoes out of studied and worked craft. He does it to prove to himself, to chase away the feeling of powerlessness, that he is a freak. How can he be a freak if he gets this primo ass? But it doesn’t work.
It doesn’t work because he is chasing the image of a man in control, a man with power. He is acting a play. He is not interested in the actual things that bring power, cannot be. First, the feeling of powerlessness is too urgent. Nothing can be thought through until that is dealt with, and it cannot be dealt with. Second, he truly feels in his core that he has no power, not even the power that is potential to acquire power. So he cannot, under any circumstance, actually ask himself the question or pose himself the challenge. He wants to bullshit his way into it.
What hurts him most is his image of himself as a powerless freak and failure. So what he attacks is the image, of himself. That is what he works on and dedicates his life to. Because it doesn’t work, he still needs the occasional powerlessness drain.
Obviously after not too long, specially an intelligent person, he understands that it’s pathological and is getting nowhere. But that is why it is pathological. The feelings that drive it are more basic, more powerful, more constitutive, than any intellectualizing.
He doesn’t do the evangelist porn out of some mission to save other freaks.
He does it as part of his life mission, to eradicate his image of himself as a powerless freak that kills and rapes girls to chase away that feeling at any cost. It is the powerlessness he can never admit, because it is what his life itself is about avoiding.
So, it’s not that. It’s the porn, like the pastor says. It doesn’t matter if he knows and you know and he knows you know he knows we know. What matters is the image.
The analysis of the powerlessness was good but too cliche and linear for Ted, I’m telling you. We’ll never resolve this because in order to do so, we need to know if Ted commited his first murder in his early teens, or if Sparks was the first. If the former, then his compulsion to rape and kill cannot have evolved out of some complex feelings of powerlessness. Ted didn’t yet feel powerless, see. All that shit comes into play after profound failures during relatively mature stages of life… like getting dumped by Brooks because ‘he had no ambition and didn’t stand up for himself’- Brooks.
See what I’m saying? All this rests on when he commited his first. The general structure of the fantasy takes shape and is maintained throughout the entire period of the serial killing. Various transformations of motives and newly discovered pleasures happen along the way, but the seed was not planted because of powerlessness. It was a purely visceral product of operant conditioning and reward. Images of naked girls being held at knife point every night, bro. That was your sex life in your tidy little leave it to beaver room in that cute little house with your fake ass family where y’ont even know of your sister is really your moms or not.
You gotta read the transcripts of the tapes man (michaud and aynesworth), as well as the keppel interviews.
Guy ain’t a textbook case, I’m tryna tell u.
You know that is bullshit. He felt powerless, was a freak, since he was a child.
This was already a thing that was there since long before, obviously. This girl only confirmed it for him.
You’re not paying attention, Clarice. Our teddy cannot direct his violence toward women via some feeling of powerlessness toward/with women if he hasn’t yet had any relationships with women. This is why our theory stands or falls on the first murder and/or assault. If our teddy’s first murder was in fact Burr, this is all happening before he’s experienced any female rejection on a significant enough scale.
Moreover, the ‘inferiority complex’ theory doesn’t pan out when we look at his Washington state University period. At this time the only thing Ted didn’t have was money and a nicer ride. Other than that, he was a star both in his school and in the Republican campaigns he participated in. During this period our teddy felt anything but ‘inferior’.
If female rejection mattered, it would be revenge driven. And it’s not.
He targets girls because they are weak, he knows he can impose his body on them. That is the only reason. They are vehicles for control. When the moment of rejection comes, it is only an echo of something he already feels, he doesn’t even resent them. He agrees with them.
Again, this is all stuff he learned after. He learned it, mind you, it didn’t come naturally to him like most people. That is why he was more successful at it than most: he made a craft of it.
He did feel inferior. He hoped this image he projected, this success, would erase that. But it didn’t. Probably, he simply felt that he was able to steer his life in a different direction, one of success, but in which he still had no control, in which life still decided for him.
I don’t have a problem with sexual fiends, gays or trannies but I wouldn’t be caught dead with a necrophiliac.
I knew a necrophiliac. One of the coolest guys I ever knew.
I just got the joke.
“if female rejection mattered, it would be revenge driven. And it’s not.”
It actually was a component that served to facilitate the universalization of resentment for all women at one brief point directly following the break up with Brooks. But as I said he ‘grew out of that’ as he proved to himself how valuable he could be to a girlfriend. In fact… and this sends the point home… he would become bored with normal sex with Liz and want to mess around and tie her up.
You see here how deeply entrenched the sadism is. Ted is far beyond reacting violently to repressed feelings of powerlessness at this point. He literally has it all. Earns public notoriety after saving a drowning boy. Keeps a decent job as a counselor at a call-in rape/suicide hotline (here’s one of those ironies about Ted). Olympic level skier who’s intellect alone can get any girl, not to mention how handsome he was in a Kenny loggins kinda way. Living with Liz and Molly and everything’s swell with the picnics and hiking trips and all that shit. Even got Molly off her training wheels.
No man. This formula won’t work with Ted, and we aren’t comfortable with the fact that we can’t use it to explain him away. After the mid-twenties, Ted had become a twisted, superhuman perv-machine who’s last worry was whether or not anybody likes him. We waaaaay past that, homes. This guy is consumed at this point only by a hyper-erotic carnal love of the hunt. He’s literally falling behind in his studies because of this fucking urge that won’t leave him alone. After a few Mickey’s and the sun goes down… it’s over for ya sweetheart. Our teddy is no longer functioning on such tediums as rejection and the feeling of powerlessness in petty human affairs. He is at this point a raving James Brownian sex machine on autopilot, and that is all.
You are just uncomfortable at imagining just how deep a role can go.
If it was really about the erotic story, he would get the girls to drive him to the spot, and tie themselves to the tree.
Even the revenge fantasies where a cover, a role, something to cover up the unacceptable real reason he did it.