Your view on evolution/history of suicide bombings? when someone blows themselves up do you they think are retarded, brain-washed, ignorant fuck nuts, who are evil minded, hateful, and have no values, or just the opposite? are they cowards? are they brave?
Are they [terrorist suicide bombers] vengeful or depressed? are they spiritual? are they gratified? is it to get into heaven? to screw 72 or so virgins because of their martyrdom?
too many questions?.. then just voice your reasoning on Why? why would someone blow themselves up for a cause (assuming they think they will succeed) they won’t even be around to see take place?
People like to search for meaning in their lives, alot of people feel like they can find meaning in sacrificing themselves for future generations. I think it is mostly these kinds of sentiments which are running through the kamikazi’s mind at those final moments.
Sad though, that so many people take games more seriously than life.
I think people search for meaning in life, only to be happy. Now where it’s also true that none of us are REALLY happy but most are generally happy and some are unhappy. These unhappy people I believe have the highest chance of becoming a terror threat because I know that if a person is generally happy then this person will not go and end his life by sacrificing himself for others, no matter what! And because he won’t take his own life ever, therefore he is also unlikely to take another’s indirectly. And as for unhappiness, I guess there could be any number of reasons - depression, poverty, on-going frustration, being brainwashed, low intelligence, etc. I doubt very much that people who become suicide bombers in particular could be evil in any way, I’d say they are more likely to have seen a lot of seemingly un-ending frustration in their life. My sister told me that the lady who became suicide bomber and killed Rajiv Gandhi the then prime minister of India in I don’t know which year, was very very poor, and so she got money for her children and so she ensured their well-being by becoming a suicide bomber. Now there is no way this woman could be evil but have low intelligence and selfishness, oh! Yes! Think about the orphans she must have created because of other adults that must have died in the blast, did she think about that? No! More than that, how can one choose to feed some lives by ending another’s life? Where is the justification? It’s possible people don’t just get brainwashed by religion alone but also ongoing frustrations. Whatever…
There is a big difference between the act of the buhddist monk and today’s Islamic suicide bomber. The monk performed self-emolation as the strongest protest against the war of which he was capable. Today’s suicide bombers see their death as instant entry into paradise for killing the non-believers, the infidels.
While there may be many ‘agendas’ behind suicide killings such as hate, poverty, etc. the “trigger” is the absolute belief in the next-world rewards.
Ain’t it amazin’ what religious beliefs can do for you?
The way I see it is this - Many fake monks (person showing himself as religious) think that there is no God and so there will be no consequence of any action and so, “Give and take” loses meaning in their eyes and therefore they learn to use people through charity and live off that and preach salvation which goes perfectly with their way of life as it misleads the public. My dear, the truth is, you can preach, the person who makes his own living and then preaches is fine, but not the other one, that one’s a fake, just trying to live off another’s labour! And when there’s a steady flow of money coming from the government or the public then they start to depend on that and soon learn to live in an unreal world where there is little or no strife. That’s the reason why being away from reality they learn to commit crimes and so many crimes are religion oriented. When I say fake monk above take that to mean a fake religious person. Now if these people were to make their own living, crime would not be committed. Essentially what I’m saying is that one wants to preach in a religious place, it’s their interest, the religious place or authority should not pay them and why in heaven’s name should the tax-payer pay them in the first place? They need to work elsewhere for that. I’m not suggesting all religious preachers do wrong things, but some out there do, those that are fake.
So this fake monk or fake religious person is very different from the suicide bomber because, the SB (suicide bomber) in all probability was brainwashed into becoming that due to adverse circumstances whereas the fake monk just uses the public to his advantage because of his own cunning, learns to live in an unreal world away from reality and so is the most likely to commit crime. Remember, “An empty mind is a devil’s workshop?” I know it’s unfortunate that the suicide bombing brings calamity, but the fact remains that, the fake monk is a fraud but the SB is not, the SB is just brainwashed! The fake monk or fake religious person in essence is way more dangerous than the SB believe it or not because it’s the fake monk or fake religious person who CREATES the SB!!!
Someone once made the observation, “The persuaders are also the persuaded.” This doesn’t mean that religious fervor can’t be cynically co-opted and used with evil intentions, but the suicide bombers are schooled by those who believe in the rightousness of martyrdom as much as the bomber who is convinced he is only a nanosecond away from paradise.
Ha! “The persuaders are also the persuaded,” you say in the context of martyrdom. Fascinating! Then how come these people who brainwash OTHERS in the name of religion or whatever are not persuading themselves into martyrdom? Why didn’t the person who concocted the Sept.11th plan martyr himself? Did he not desire heaven? Oops! Perhaps he thought there was a better heaven on earth for himself and for others it was in martyrdom. Double standards eh? I believe the above quote but NOT in the context of martyrdom.
I’m not willing to assign motives to the teachers of martyrism. Double standards? Perhaps. It just might be that those who would teach and encourage see their role as a higher calling, ‘sacrificing’ their desire to give their life in martyrdom in order to help others ‘find the way to paradise’. The concept holds.
I can understand people who sacrifice their own desire to help others achieve theirs although I must say there can be no such person because the person who cares about others will first have to know how to care about himself. Not only that, if you sacrifice for others then they learn to do the same and so no one benefits. For example: If I ruin my life to make someone else’s life then this other will do the same and so no one has a life. Therefore it is good to be not too sacrificing and be fair to ourself in the first place because then everyone lives a fair and beautiful life.
As far as martyrdom and persuasion into it is concerned by another party, I’d have to be the biggest fool to think that the person persuading me cares about my welfare to drive me to martyrdom. If life on earth is the only one we see and know of then life in heaven should mean nothing but a lure or a trap.
Take off your western hat for a moment. Those who would be martyrs have been raised in a culture that glorifies martyrdom. They aren’t being ‘driven’ into anything. The teachers ARE looking after their welfare. They are showing them the way to paradise. Look at it from their cultural and religious perspective. That it is completely irrational and destructive has nothing to do with their faith - which is the basis of their irrationality.
Ok, you’re right when you say that, “Those who would be martyrs have been raised in a culture that glorifies martyrdom.” I agree because during my research on the sept.11th thing and to write an essay on Kashmir I encountered some websites that emphasized that, children as young as 5yrs old are brought up or trained to become martyrs. At this young age, their thinking is still forming and so of course they can be persuaded into believing anything. But the persuaders are not morons or idiots, ok? That’s where you are making the mistake of believing that their persuaders have been brought up in that environment or under that training too. No! The persuaders have not been brought up like that. The persuaders are just fanatics, evil geniuses, who will go to any lengths to gratify themselves. Therefore you are wrong in suggesting that, “The teachers ARE looking after their welfare.” My dear, the teachers KNOW what they are doing, and what they are doing is WRONG! That’s the REASON they don’t martyr themselves but others.
wanhwailsob I wonder what happened to the language of the pen? I wonder where it went? “The pen is mightier than the sword.” Ha ha, no one believes in it anymore. One thinks the other is a demon but themselves they think they are God!
When I was growing up there was a saying in this country (USA) “better dead than red”
Maybe the question should be is there any believe that you would be willing to sacfrice your life for. Any thing political, reglious, family or personal. If there is maybe you can gain some insight into these others, if not I don’t think you will ever be able to understand them.
You lost the whole jist of it, didn’t you? The people who would die for their country my dear are very different from the ones who are brought up DELIBERATELY so by affecting their minds at a very vulnerable age. These latter ones have been BRAINWASHED into believing something! Do you have any commonsense to understand the difference?
You’re assigning negative motives to a group of people based on your assumptions of what is right and wrong. You aren’t looking at it from their perspective. It just might be that the have faith that what they’re doing is right - which would make you wrong.
The fact that the young are raised inside a religion that teaches concepts you see as wrong doesn’t mean they are brainwashed. From their point of view, you’re the one who is brainwashed. Again, take a moment and look at it from their perspective.
tentative,
My point was, that sometimes religion is used as a concept to brainwash and not to guide or enhance someone’s life and we should not forget the difference when it is clearly brainwashing to harm another. You are saying that religion is not always used to brainwash. You’re right! But I’m saying that when there is no shadow of doubt that it is used to brainwash then we should take it as such and not say that, that’s the way of life of bringing some children up, when we know it’s otherwise.
Yes, religion can be used as a tool of “brainwashing”, but the term brainwashing as I understand it is used for secular or political motives.
Those raised inside a religion, both persuaders and the persuaded, aren’t “brainwashed”. They are simply acting on the tenets of their ‘faith’.
That their acts are irrational and destructive isn’t an issue (for them) because they are performing ‘God’s will’. This is all to say that we cannot assign motive to their actions. We can deplore their behavior, but whether it is diabolical manipulation for political purposes or extreme acts of religious faith cannot be judged by anyone not raised in their culture.
“One man’s brainwashing is another man’s education”
tentative my dear,
If, “they are performing ‘God’s will’” as you mention, then, isn’t that precisely what shows that they are brainwashed because they think like that, which is why, their “irrational and destructive” acts seem ok to them even when they harm another? Because as far as I see, God cherishes every human being on earth whether we are a believer or not it matters not to God. To God what matters most is that we all be good and responsible human beings, THAT IS GOD’S WILL. In my eyes, religion is only there to make the corrupt more humane, otherwise it has no use at all. So what in heavens name is a believer or kafir (non-believer) to God?
You’re more than welcome to your view of God, his intentions, and how we are to act accordingly. I suppose you can call the faith/beliefs of others ‘brainwashing’ if you choose. Just know that those ‘brainwashed’ people are just as sincere in their beliefs and acts as you are in yours.
