My Musical Qabalah.

So yeah, your faith rests on an unevident decision—as was always evident. I mean, your decision is evident to me: you need your faith, and that’s why you embrace it.

“[T]he need of faith, of something unconditioned in yea or nay, […] is a need of weakness. The man of faith, the ‘believer’ of any sort, is necessarily a dependent man—such a man cannot posit himself as a goal, nor can he find goals within himself. The ‘believer’ does not belong to himself; he can only be a means to an end; he must be used up; he needs someone to use him up. His instinct gives the highest honours to an ethic of self-effacement; he is prompted to embrace it by everything: his prudence, his experience, his vanity. Every sort of faith is in itself an evidence of self-effacement, of self-estrangement… When one reflects how necessary it is to the great majority that there be regulations to restrain them from without and hold them fast, and to what extent control, or, in a higher sense, slavery, is the one and only condition which makes for the well-being of the weak-willed man, and especially woman, then one at once understands conviction and ‘faith.’ To the man with convictions they are his backbone. To avoid seeing many things, to be impartial about nothing, to be a party man through and through, to estimate all values strictly and infallibly—these are conditions necessary to the existence of such a man. But by the same token they are antagonists of the truthful man—of the truth… The believer is not free to answer the question, ‘true’ or ‘not true,’ according to the dictates of his own conscience: integrity on this point would work his instant downfall.” (Nietzsche, The Antichrist, section 54.)

Your statement does not follow from the one you cherry-picked, or its context. Faith is just trust.

Do you trust blindly? Do you trust your musical qabalah out of need? Does that automatically invalidate it?

Nietzsche was a walking cautionary contradiction.

Not quite. As I wrote on page 2 of this thread:

Perhaps I should even have said “on a deep, animal level”, though…

He was an exoteric writer.

Do I “trust” my musical Qabalah? What the hell are you talking about! Can you give an example of an article of my “trust”?

I didn’t cherry-pick, I just snipped. Who do you trust?

Exoteric? Kinda weasely for someone who seemed to value backbones, if y’ask me.

Feelin snippy? Put it in a book & preserve it. It’ll last longer.

Man. I miss my professors. Especially the one who had ‘em all snipped & WAITING!!! Friggen ALDER. Guhhhhhhhhh!!! Fanon excuses & neutralizes himself. Roflmao.

You and I have demonstrated that your “trust” rests on an unevident decision. So now you’re trying to bring me down to your level, or raise yourself up to mine—which amounts to the same. So let me answer my questions, which you ignored. You don’t trust your God, because one cannot trust someone who doesn’t exist. You trust the writers of the New Testament and, in a way, yourself: namely, your wishful interpretations of your “religious experiences”—though only in tandem with their wishful interpretations of their “religious experiences”.

That answers my last question, except that it supposes the writers of the New Testament all wrote “in good faith”. And with this we arrive at the only serious thing you said in your last post:

Not weaselly, but it’s indeed the big problem contemporary people tend to have with philosophical esotericism:

“Its secrecy contradicts our liberal commitment to openness and transparency, as well as the Enlightenment project of demystification and disenchantment.
Its dishonesty violates our moral code of truthfulness, our scholarly and scientific code of the open sharing of results, as well as our cultural ideal of sincerity or authenticity.
[…]
Its intentional embrace of obscurity sins against our scientific culture of literalness, clarity, and systematic rigor.
Its effort to cloister knowledge for the appreciation of the elite few, while leaving prejudice and illusion unmolested in their reign over everyone else, contradicts the great project for the universal dissemination of knowledge and enlightenment that is inseparable from the modern ideal of progress—moral, social, and intellectual.
The curious childishness of its playing with puzzles and riddles clashes with our ideal of philosophical seriousness and gravity.” (Melzer, Philosophy Between the Lines, pp. 105-06.)

All of this and more, however, is justified by the difference between the philosophic few and the unphilosophic many. Compared to the former, the latter are children!

Now as for my other question(s): Qabalah for me is just a reference system; and when I say ‘Qabalah’, I mostly just mean Aleister Crowley’s version thereof. I’ve recognized in him a genuine philosopher, albeit one who does not use philosophical esotericism so much as mystical esotericism. And as for genuine philosophers:

“As this book proceeds, it will make ever more evident what is in the end not at all surprising, that philosophers from Socrates to Nietzsche share what is highest and best. The same object of inquiry investigated with the same instruments of inquiry by similarly passionate and supreme masters of inquiry—if philosophy is possible at all of course its peak attainments bear a close family resemblance. It was the necessities of exotericism, of fitting philosophy to the ruling men, that forced philosophy to adopt the different guises in different ages that made it looks so different when looked back at without the resources of an appreciation of exotericism.” (Lampert, The Enduring Importance of Leo Strauss, pp. 126-27.)

I’ve mostly just used Crowley’s Qabalah—Tree of Life!—as a kind of roadmap for the intellectual development of a philosopher. As I wrote in my OP, ‘of course, this is a system I don’t necessarily completely subscribe to’. And much the same thing Crowley held about the Qabalah, I’ve always held about Crowley’s own writings:

“The Qabalah, that is, the Jewish Tradition concerning the initiated interpretation of their Scriptures, is mostly either unintelligible or nonsense. But it contains as it ground-plan the most precious jewel of human thought, that geometrical arrangement of names and numbers which is called the Tree of Life.” (Crowley, Little Essays toward Truth, opening essay.)

This is not too surprising, considering that the Jews have a long history of hiding precious jewels of human thought. For example:

“Maimonides […] speaks of the Sabians and Abraham’s revolt against Sabianism and of Moses as the supreme philosopher-legislator—that is, a Plato or Aristotle who legislates a philosophic religion that accords to, or had to take into account, the pagan or Sabian temper of the times. Because of this, the Bible and the Midrashim contain 'strange but correct notions attained by the speculation of the most sublime of those who have philosophized (Guide [for the Perplexed], I.70), presented enigmatically, too strange to be understood by the vulgar. (To understand their correct meaning, therefore, one must become a ‘most sublime philosopher.’) The context is the explanation of the expression ‘to ride’ (rakhob) in the dictum ‘the rider of the heavens’ (Deut. 33:26) and the relation between the heavens and God”. (Mahdi 2001, page 237.)

Addendum:

“In his Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible Russell E. Gmirkin adds an unexpected dimension to Nietzsche’s judgment on Plato and his historic importance as a preexistent Christian. Building on previous scholarship but significantly advancing it, Gmirkin offers a massive and painstaking demonstration of his thesis that the Hebrew scriptures were written by Jewish scholars working at the great Library in Alexandria around 270 BCE and that they were schooled by Greek philosophers, particularly Plato, most particularly Plato’s Laws. In that dialogue an ‘Athenian Stranger’ gives instructions on how best to found a people by supplying it with laws and customs that would make it eternal. Gmirkin makes a powerful case that the laws of the Pentateuch, particularly those of Deuteronomy, and the history of the founding hero Moses, and the charter myth of God’s deliverance from Egypt into the Promised Land, plus the tribal structure of twelve tribes and priestly authority for the continuation of culture, and numerous other features large and small of Jewish practice and belief have precise precedents in Greek writings especially Plato’s Laws and virtually no precedents in Middle Eastern traditions generally. Gmirkin has put us all in his debt for a stupendous amount of research into the beliefs, laws, customs, and institutions of the Hebrew Bible, the Greek writers, and ancient Middle Eastern documents and records, and, not less, for his meticulous and judicious comparative assessments of this massive amount of material. He makes a persuasive case for a radical reinterpretation of the foundations of Western monotheism and the populations that lived it and live it.” (Lampert, What a Philosopher Is: Becoming Nietzsche, pp. 282-83.)

If you don’t trust what you’re saying… whether intellectually or relationally … methinks thou dost protest too much.

Trust is a decision. Deciding which way to land on an issue, including whether or not to make yourself vulnerable to someone else (whether mutually or one-sided… or… with respect to God… in a way that puts ALL your nihil in question) … you need to test the spirits. Examine everything, and only hold on to the good. Focus on the excellent. If you leave your mind uncritically open, bats will nest in your God-shaped hole. Your mind should be as open as a wood chipper on full blast. Only the strongest ideas should survive.

self=other lets all the bats in as self/other, but if you delude yourself against self=other, you turn into a bat

Nietzsche was def right on that one… lived it. Cautionary contradiction

But let’s do it in German. Errybody now! “Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.”

I adopted the terms “desire” and “decide” from what Mahdi says on the same page:

“The activity [of bringing these notions into actual existence] depends on a further condition, the desire and the decision to perform it. […W]e begin to suspect that the absence of the desire and decision that [Alfarabi] specifies here affects the theoretical study of divine and human things, as distinguished from logic and physics”. (Mahdi, Alfarabi and the Foundation of Islamic Political Philosophy, page 185.)

Now Strauss, in his "Note on the Plan of Nietzsche’s Beyond Good and Evil, significantly says:

“The will to power takes the place which the eros—the striving for the ‘good in itself’—occupies in Plato’s thought. […] Accordingly philosophizing […] is not love of the true that is independent of will or decision.” (Strauss, Studies in Platonic Political Philosophy, page 176.)

If the political philosopher is not just to desire, but also to decide to bring intelligible notions into existence, then, does this not amount to saying, not just that love is the “law”—i.e., that it’s “imperative”—, but also that it must be under will? At this point it may be helpful to bring in Lavater:

“Discern closely, in yourself and others, between desire [Verlangen] and will in the strictest sense of the word.
Whoever has many desires (desideriorum multa), ordinarily has little will; whoever has earnest, powerful will, has few (diverging) desires; whoever can wholly will a single thing, renounces many a desire; whoever cannot renounce many a desire, never has the genuine manpower, in which man’s true kingly greatness consists. The power to will properly, the concentrated result of all the human powers, is the will born through the pain of the renunciation of many a desire.” (J.C. Lavater, Aphorismen über den Menschen, aphorism 20 whole, my translation.)

By the way, do I need to point out that eros means both “love” and “desire”? Thus the Roman pantheon had not one, but two counterparts to the Greek god Eros: Amor and Cupid.

Now William Blake owned an English translation of selected aphorisms of Lavater, titled Aphorisms on Man, and he not only made annotations to it, but was also notably influenced by it in composing his The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, where he says:

“Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained”. (Plate 5; cf. plate 3 with Aphorisms on Man aph. 19.)

What’s decisive for willing intelligible notions into existence is that one’s desire is so strong as not to be “restrained”.—

Now on the same page, Mahdi goes further:

“It is up to [the logician and physicist] to decide whether he wishes to become a prince. If he decides to become one, and succeeds, this will be his reward. If not, he will be excluded from this great power and glory”.

Does this mean the political philosopher must not just desire and decide, but on top of that also succeed? Does a philosopher really care about the “reward” of princehood, the “great power and glory” of princehood? To be sure, this power includes “the power to control the teaching and investigation of the theoretical sciences” (Mahdi, same paragraph, next page). But as I said in my 'What Is Nietzsche’s Sovereign Agent? The Will to Power as Insight",

“It is […] not necessary […] for the philosopher’s will to power […] to succeed […]. As Meier argues in his [Nietzsche] sequel, if not in its prequel, the philosopher’s essential attainment consists in ‘attaining a height from which it is possible and permitted to converse with the heaviest task as play.’ [Meier, Nietzsche’s Legacy, page 439, my translation. I use “converse” in the sense in which Milton uses it, e.g. in Paradise Lost Book VII, verse 9, and Book II, verse 184 (and, so I suspect, Crowley in the term “Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel”).]”

That’s the harmonic triads, and you do need all three.

eros/passion in red (id)
will/desire in blue (superego)
too bad Nietzsche jettisoned the ego … quite the monkeywrench

No. The only way in which the middle one makes sense is through the concept “guilty conscience”—but this is actually a conflation of two different phenomena: guilt and the bad conscience. If you conflate the two, then yes, it should be associated with the will—though not with desire, as that should be associated with eros as I already established—:

So the will, as distinct from love/desire, should be associated with the ego, not with superego.—

As for the first one, yes, eros should be associated with passion—Greek pathos—:

“That we must speak of two accounts of reason, the ancient and the modern, can be seen in the fact that for the ancients thought was at its height, not an action, but what they called a passion. Whatever the differences in what came to us from Jerusalem and from Athens, on this central point there was a commonness. The height for man was a passion. In modern language we might weakly describe this by saying that thought was finally a receptivity. We can see that this is not true of modern thought because its very form is the making of hypotheses and the testing by experiment, something intimately connected with the acts of our wills, the controlling of the world, the making of history.” (George Grant, “Time as History”. I have combined the recorded lecture with the written text.)

eros/passion (id)
will/action (ego)

This will, which Nietzsche did jettison, is not the will to power, however. The will to power is a pathos (WP 635). As I explained, the will or decision to power is simply the love or desire that’s strong enough to trump one’s other desires, one’s other angels or daemons:

“[Satan’s] Pride
Had cast him out from Heav’n, with all his Host
Of Rebel Angels, by whose aid aspiring
To set himself in Glory above his Peers,
He trusted to have equal’d the most High,
If he oppos’d; and with ambitious aim
Against the Throne and Monarchy of God
Rais’d impious War in Heav’n and Battel proud
With vain attempt. Him the Almighty Power
Hurld headlong flaming from th’ Ethereal Skie
With hideous ruine and combustion down
[…and addressed Beelzebub thus:]
O Prince, O Chief of many Throned Powers,
That led th’ imbattelld Seraphim to Warr”
etc. (Paradise Lost, Book I, verse 36-46 and 128-29.)

The Powers (and the Thrones and the Seraphim, for that matter) are one of the three times three classes of angels in the celestial hierarchy of pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite; and Milton used the phrase “the Almighty Power” in that sense, too.

Lastly, the connection between the bad conscience and the superego. The term “guilt culture” actually conflates guilt and the bad conscience, and should be “bad conscience-culture” instead. Now what I said is this:

‘[T]he only difference [between an honour-shame culture and a “guilt” culture, respectively] is in whether what matters more to people is whether others or they themselves think they or their ancestors etc. have freely willed great things.—’

What about what their god(s) think(s)? Well, that’s the thing: what people themselves think in this regard is the internalization of what others think in this regard… and this internalization goes through the intermediary stage of “what their god(s) think(s)”. In fact, this stage is never really transcended (and therefore not really intermediary, of course). Even the intellectual conscience, as a conscience behind one’s “conscience”, is still God/the Father at heart…

the will to power turned against itself (superego)

You have action in the right place :slight_smile:

Desire is for the good and is free. Passion is for the beautiful and is an impulse for beauty. You need both, separately, together with the hunger for truth/insight/being.

What do you think is missing from those three when you settle for the mere appearance (what others see of you, versus the actuality) of any of them?

Those who accept the reality (they are imperfect, and forgiven/loved) have no false appearance to maintain, and no guilty conscience.

Have you seen the irony in those who reject the idea they can be imperfect—who turn around and condemn with the most venomous hatred those they feel have condemned them? They are not free. Observe Nietzsche’s many judgments of others.

Who is free? The one who forgives.

I suppose the one who forgives is free from bearing grudges and the like. But, in a strict sense, no one and nothing is free. Desire, for example, is a passion: it’s “suffered”—not in the sense of being bad or feeling bad, but simply in the sense of being passive (though of course one may “ache” for something). So, again:

eros/love/desire/the will to power/passion/pathos (id)

Being wholly unfree, of course you are (to be) “forgiven”: there’s nothing to forgive!

Now desire/passion is not for the good, but for the beautiful (which is mere appearance, by the way). Meier puts it well:

“The experience of the beatitudo […] encourages [the philosopher] to live the dialectical tension […] between the devotion to the beautiful and the knowledge of our needy nature, which allows this devotion to be good for us.” (Meier, “On the Genealogy of Faith in Revelation”, towards the end.)

Our needy nature is our “erotic nature”:

“In his erotic nature [the philosopher] recognizes the strength that carries him beyond himself and the power that enables him to find himself again in the whole.” (ib.)

The peculiar philosophic eros is “the hunger for truth/insight/being”, as you call it.

Lastly, I repeat: Nietzsche was an exoteric writer.

Have you noticed each sphere has its unconditioned stimulus, and its action? Thinking/being is active. Creation/imagination is active.

And yet the spheres are distinct.

There is no action, because there is no agency—no free will—and no agent.

This is the only thing that really exists. And that means, in fact, that its nature is still illusory in an important respect: for its object, the beautiful, is wholly illusory. Now as to this:

free will/action (ego)

This, too, is wholly illusory; and it includes the “subject” of desire (the I). Now lastly:

“This instinct of freedom which is forcefully made latent—we already grasped as much—this instinct of freedom which is pushed back, receded, imprisoned internally [all this by other instincts of freedom], and ultimately only discharging itself on, and letting itself out on, itself anymore: that, only that is the bad conscience on its outset. […T]hat instinct of freedom (said in my language: the will to power) […]” (Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals, Second Treatise, sections 17-18, translation and colorizations mine.)

eros/love/desire/the will to power/passion/pathos turned against itself (superego)

Addendum:

And how does it let itself out on itself? Precisely with the torture instrument that is the concept “free will/action (ego)”!

action/will/superego is blue

Orient yourself & help me untangle anything you see is amiss.
D8F2894D-9DB3-42B8-9AD4-4E5D74DD53C6.jpeg

It’s overcrowded. :wink:

Other than that, the first thing I want to point out is that I’ve used green as a primary colour, whereas you use yellow instead.

Next, I suppose you can relate free-will/action to the superego, considering my last addendum.

Lastly, though, you and I disagree on the fundamental matter, which is the logical impossibility of any free agency whatsoever.

What evidence compels you to think independently of how I think?

Is that a trick question? Freedom and independence are intimately related: in order to be free, in the strict sense, one would have to be independent, again in the strict sense. Thus you and I don’t think independently; our back-and-forth here is only a part of the whole cosmic process in which we’re both intertwined. And this is not just a matter of evidence, i.e. of experience, but also of logic, like I said; in other words, not just empirical, but rational as well.

So your ticket to thinking other than what I think is what compelling evidence?

And.

If we arrive at the same conclusion by the same evidence… are we equally compelled to think other than those who disagree with us, or are we thinking independently of them… together?

Yes, equally compelled to think other than those who disagree with us, but no, still not thinking independently of them.

“They do not comprehend how what pulls itself apart pulls itself together: a high-strung¹ harmony, thoroughly like that of bow and lyre.” (Heraclitus, fragment 51, my translation.)

The compelling evidence is what you might call “the Creation”. What compelling evidence do you have for thinking there’s an Increate Creator behind “the Creation”?

¹ παλίντονος, “re-flex”, as in a reflex bow. Another version has come down to us, which has παλίντροπος, “re-curve”, as in a recurve bow.