Narcissism vs Self-Love

[Erik1 (Erik_)]

Contradistinction between salubrious self-love and narcissism. You guys go first.

[Ecmandu]

Narcissism is the inability to take the criticism of reality into self love.

[Erik1 (Erik_)]

@Ecmandu

Narcissism is the inability to take the criticism of reality into self love.

Examples?

I think the fundamental contradistinction between narcissism and healthy self-love is that the narcissist is not, really, aware of his defects; he/she only sees the good and hyper-inflates those good qualities, while banishing his/her defects into unconsciousness. The one who really loves himself will be honest about himself, acknowledging the defects, but seeking to augment them.

[Lump]

@Erik_

Contradistinction between salubrious self-love and narcissism. You guys go first.

Google it? Or is it too difficult?

[Jr_Wells]

Googled it…
Self-esteem differs from narcissism in that it represents an attitude built on accomplishments we’ve mastered, values we’ve adhered to, and care we’ve shown toward others. Narcissism, conversely, is often based on a fear of failure or weakness, a focus on one’s self, an unhealthy drive to be seen as the best, and a deep-seated insecurity and underlying feelingSelf-esteem differs from narcissism in that it represents an attitude built on accomplishments we’ve mastered, values we’ve adhered to, and care we’ve shown toward others. Narcissism, conversely, is often based on a fear of failure or weakness, a focus on one’s self, an unhealthy drive to be seen as the best, and a deep-seated insecurity and underlying feeling of inadequacy of inadequacy

[James_S_Saint]

Superego vs ego.
Defensive reaction to social judgment vs defensive reaction to self judgment.

… assuming that you didn’t mean “love” in the more serious sense.

[Erik1 (Erik_)]

@Jr Wells

Googled it…
Self-esteem differs from narcissism in that it represents an attitude built on accomplishments we’ve mastered, values we’ve adhered to, and care we’ve shown toward others. Narcissism, conversely, is often based on a fear of failure or weakness, a focus on one’s self, an unhealthy drive to be seen as the best, and a deep-seated insecurity and underlying feelingSelf-esteem differs from narcissism in that it represents an attitude built on accomplishments we’ve mastered, values we’ve adhered to, and care we’ve shown toward others. Narcissism, conversely, is often based on a fear of failure or weakness, a focus on one’s self, an unhealthy drive to be seen as the best, and a deep-seated insecurity and underlying feeling of inadequacy of inadequacy

Good find.

I think modern females suffer from narcissism collectively, yet how nobody seems to call it for what it is…

[Magnus_Anderson]

Narcissism: consuming your own image like a drug.

As with all other kinds of reactive behavior, the goal is to short-circuit one’s own problems (to deny/forget oneself.) Thus, it is a form of self-deception.

One focuses on one’s best qualities in order to deny/forget/escape one’s negative qualities.

I’d equate self-love with self-hate and narcissism because no healthy person actually has an attitude towards himself. One can see/understand/know oneself one way or another, but this is not the same as having an attitude towards oneself. A narcissist is “in love” with himself.

[Jr_Wells]

@Erik_

@Jr Wells

Googled it…
Self-esteem differs from narcissism in that it represents an attitude built on accomplishments we’ve mastered, values we’ve adhered to, and care we’ve shown toward others. Narcissism, conversely, is often based on a fear of failure or weakness, a focus on one’s self, an unhealthy drive to be seen as the best, and a deep-seated insecurity and underlying feeling of inadequacy

Good find.

I think modern females suffer from narcissism collectively, yet how nobody seems to call it for what it is…

I agree… we dare not call it for what it is. I never witnessed bullying to such a degree until I changed careers and moved into a female dominated profession. It is horrific.

[MagsJ (Surya Loka.. triumvirate)]

[size=150]Hotchkiss’ seven deadly sins of narcissism[/size]

Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:[9]

1. Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
2. Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
3. Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
4. Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person’s ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
5. Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an “awkward” or “difficult” person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
6. Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
7. Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist, there is no boundary between self and other.

[MagsJ (Surya Loka.. triumvirate)]

Narcissism was not always a bad thing, but recent psychology has deemed it so, like so many other traits that are now being labeled as bad or negative.

[size=150]Healthy narcissism[/size]

Main article: Healthy narcissism
Healthy narcissism is a structural truthfulness of the self, achievement of self and object constancy, synchronization between the self and the superego and a balance between libidinal and aggressive drives (the ability to receive gratification from others and the drive for impulse expression). Healthy narcissism forms a constant, realistic self-interest and mature goals and principles and an ability to form deep object relations.[12] A feature related to healthy narcissism is the feeling of greatness. This is the antithesis of insecurity or inadequacy.

[James_S_Saint]

“Healthy narcissism” applies only to women and black males.
“Unhealthy narcissism” applies only to white males.

[MagsJ (Surya Loka.. triumvirate)]

@James S Saint

“Healthy narcissism” applies only to women and black males.
“Unhealthy narcissism” applies only to white males.

Surely healthy and unhealthy narcissism should apply to ‘all’? I’ve seen both manifest in all, so why the divisions?

[Erik1 (Erik_)]

@James S Saint

“Healthy narcissism” applies only to women and black males.
“Unhealthy narcissism” applies only to white males.

so true ^^^^

Not trying to sound misogynistic, but I think younger women tend to suffer from this collectively. It’s not called " narcissism ", but rather " Diva girl ". Techno-capitalist modernity is like a hothouse for these divas.

[Ecmandu]

The technical term for unhealthy narcissism is “malignant narcissism”.

[Arcturus_Descending]

@Erik_

Contradistinction between salubrious self-love and narcissism. You guys go first.

Salubrious (great word) by effect is beneficial to others - narcissism is destructive and in the end even to the narcissist.
The former leads to or may lead to self-realization and more consciousness - the latter leads away in the opposite direction. lol

[Erik1 (Erik_)]

@Arcturus Descending

@Erik_

Contradistinction between salubrious self-love and narcissism. You guys go first.

Salubrious (great word) by effect is beneficial to others - narcissism is destructive and in the end even to the narcissist.
The former leads to or may lead to self-realization and more consciousness - the latter leads away in the opposite direction. lol

It’s a sexy sounding word, isn’t it?

Why does it have to be beneficial to others? That almost rings of a slavish altruism…

[Orbie]

I think the modern diva is getting it, but at the same time isn’t this the role we have created which some clever brittney will be able to fill? Aren’t all roles not purely akind of re-invention but a product of an iron maiden container, in order to set a model as an example of the impossibility of it for all except the very few?(Nietzche) THE ANTI CHRIST IS SUCH A MODEL. Other than that how can self esteem develp as a healty sign?

[Arcturus_Descending]

Erik,

Salubrious (great word) by effect is beneficial to others - narcissism is destructive and in the end even to the narcissist.
The former leads to or may lead to self-realization and more consciousness - the latter leads away in the opposite direction. lol

It’s a sexy sounding word, isn’t it?

Actually, if I didn’t know what the word means, my intuition might have suggested something other than what it is - like gluttony or addiction…or more to the point overly indulgent. Don’t know why.

Why does it have to be beneficial to others? That almost rings of a slavish altruism…

A healthy self-consciousness or self-love is not slavish altruism unless perhaps it has the mindset of someone who thinks in terms of “ought to” or “should”. It’s benefits necessarily flow into benefits to the other, whether the other at first realizes that or not. I simply mean [anyone] by other.
It may at times BE a struggle toward becoming and/or compassion/altruism but nothing slavish about it. Depends on one’s own attitude.

It’s like Portia’s speech in the Merchant of Venice -

The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
…

Change “mercy” to “love” “compassion” “empathy” lol any of those words will fit and you have your answer.

[Erik1 (Erik_)]

Arcturus Descending wrote:

A healthy self-consciousness or self-love is not slavish altruism unless perhaps it has the mindset of someone who thinks in terms of “ought to” or “should”. It’s benefits necessarily flow into benefits to the other, whether the other at first realizes that or not. I simply mean [anyone] by other.
It may at times BE a struggle toward becoming and/or compassion/altruism but nothing slavish about it. Depends on one’s own attitude.

It’s like Portia’s speech in the Merchant of Venice -

The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
…

Change “mercy” to “love” “compassion” “empathy” lol any of those words will fit and you have your answer.

Very good

I’m not against compassion or empathy - far from it. If they emanate from an overflowingness, I view them as strengths - an indication of a lively soul full of life.